PDA

View Full Version : General advice about tank and blue cray



etc
09-09-2007, 11:20 AM
In my freshwater tank, under the advisement of a representative from my LFS, I purchased a blue lobster (cray).

I have a 75 gallon tank with the following...

Geophagus brasiliensis
Geophagus brachybranchus
Albino Clownknife
Elephant Nose
2x Panda Cory
Albino Cory
Lg Common Pleco
Peppermint Pleco
Rafael Cat
Upside Down Cat
Three lined cory
2x Leopard Puffer

I used to have a XLg Blood Parrot, but had to turn him into the LFS because he was torturing the other fish, especially the larger Geophagus...pecking at his eyes and such.

I have my tank pretty well planted with live plants, including leafy sword plants etc. I also have a few decos purposely picked out to provide the elephant nose and the knifefish with a home of sorts. A large piece of driftwood, and also a few lg rocks here and there.

I just wanted to get a general sense of what people thought about the setup.

But also, wanted to know what people thought of the lobster purchase. I asked specifically about my bottom feeders, whether they would be hunted by the cray, and they told me no, it shouldn't be a problem. However I am reading quite a bit that says that the lobster is very capable of and will go after bottom dwellers.

I am not too worried about the Rafael, Upside Down, and the plecos because they stay pretty well hidden and out of reach, but the cory cats give me pause. Is my consternation valid?

poel_19
09-09-2007, 11:34 AM
very valid, lobsters(crawdads) are omniverous they eat plants and anything wiggling that will fit in their mouth.....how small is your lobster??

etc
09-09-2007, 11:51 AM
Tail extended he is probably a good 5-6 inches. He is pretty large.

Which fish in particular should I worry about?

Thanks for the quick response btw...do you have any advice or words about the tank setup as a whole?

xtc
09-09-2007, 11:54 AM
Hey man- welcome to the site. I got a call from Feasible that you'd be heading our way. Welcome!!

xtc
09-09-2007, 11:58 AM
The leopard puffers really should be in brackish water.

Please consider taking them back the the LFS or set up another tank for them.

They'll also nip at your slower fish. I'd assume they'll consider your crawfish as food.

They're also known to rip up plants.

And if you don't mind my asking- what LFS are we talking about?

etc
09-09-2007, 01:26 PM
The leopard puffers really should be in brackish water.

Please consider taking them back the the LFS or set up another tank for them.

They'll also nip at your slower fish. I'd assume they'll consider your crawfish as food.

They're also known to rip up plants.

And if you don't mind my asking- what LFS are we talking about?

They are actually the freshwater variety. I believe the scientific name is T. schoutedeni. This was confirmed by the LFS as well. I believe they also go by the name "spotted congo". I had they same question about their need for brackish water when I got them, but I called back up there, and he insisted that they were indeed the freshwater variety. They have the "club like" body shape after they eat, and they also seem like they are doing well, so I believe everything is good.

From what I have read as well, of all of the puffers, they are the least aggressive, and shouldn't really nip at the fins of the other fish all that much. The puffers are about 2-3 inches, so the lobster is quite a bit bigger.

Since I live near DNA, I typically go there, but at the recommendation of a member of DFWMAS, I actually went to USA Aquarium in Plano. It seems like they specialize in Discus fish...they are beautiful!

etc
09-09-2007, 01:28 PM
Hey man- welcome to the site. I got a call from Feasible that you'd be heading our way. Welcome!!

Yeah I had actually been on the site prior lurking around, and they sent me over here for my freshwater questions. I will definitely be taking part of this forum quite a bit as well. I know some people prefer saltwater tanks, but because of the disposition of my tank mates, I actually quite prefer my freshwater tank. All the fish are very friendly and have a lot of personality, and all love being hand fed too, especially the geos and the clown knifefish.

Thanks!

xtc
09-09-2007, 04:03 PM
I'm not familiar with that name and I didn't see it in the puffer encyclopedia. here (http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/ug.php/v/PufferPedia/%22%5BURL=%22http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/ug.php/v/PufferPedia/%5B/URL)

That's an excellent resource by the way.

I'm also very familiar with the LFS claim of a freshwater variety. It may not matter and I'm certainly not arguing- but I would like you to have all the available info.

If you got it at DNA- they commonly have a leopard, figure 8 and South American Puffer. Of those- ONLY the SAP is a true freshwater puffer. There is no such thing as a freshwater "leopard". You can do it, it's just not a natural environment for them.

He will probably also pull your plants- but every puffer is different- I hope you have good luck with him.

We have a T. Lineatus and LOVE him!! He is a true freshwater puffer- but he's quite large. :hehe:

If you need snails to feed em, let me know- I have a couple different breeding populations- for just such use.

This isn't "Peanut" (but looks very similar)


http://www.thepufferforum.com/ug/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=916&g2_serialNumber=3

lellison
09-09-2007, 05:46 PM
I would watch the blue lobster too. I used to have crawdads that I caught in one of my tanks when I was younger, and they would try to hunt down things in the tank. My tank was much smaller than yours is, but if you are worried I would suggest not taking the chance. Welcome though! Glad to have you here. Good luck with the puffers too, not sure witch ones you have, but I would check the site Chris ( xtc) gave you, it should help. I used to have GSP and Figure 8s in brackish tanks with monos. Loved them. Anyways, welcome again. Let us know how you work everything out with the blue lobster

etc
09-09-2007, 07:02 PM
There are quite a few sites out there that detail the differences between the "leopard" puffers. Supposedly there are 3 of them that are commonly sold as leopard puffers...2 are brackish I believe, and 1 is fresh water

http://puffernet.tripod.com/confusion.html for some more information.

I might hit you up for some snails...they are already terrorizing both of mine that I had in there, and they are pretty large.

I have always been very fond of puffers, I just knew their temperament was a little hostile. From what I have read though, the ones that I believe I have are pretty passive comparitively.

Your pufferforum link didn't pull up.


I'm not familiar with that name and I didn't see it in the puffer encyclopedia. here (http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/ug.php/v/PufferPedia/%22%5BURL=%22http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/ug.php/v/PufferPedia/%5B/URL)

That's an excellent resource by the way.

I'm also very familiar with the LFS claim of a freshwater variety. It may not matter and I'm certainly not arguing- but I would like you to have all the available info.

If you got it at DNA- they commonly have a leopard, figure 8 and South American Puffer. Of those- ONLY the SAP is a true freshwater puffer. There is no such thing as a freshwater "leopard". You can do it, it's just not a natural environment for them.

He will probably also pull your plants- but every puffer is different- I hope you have good luck with him.

We have a T. Lineatus and LOVE him!! He is a true freshwater puffer- but he's quite large. :hehe:

If you need snails to feed em, let me know- I have a couple different breeding populations- for just such use.

This isn't "Peanut" (but looks very similar)


http://www.thepufferforum.com/ug/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=916&g2_serialNumber=3

etc
09-09-2007, 07:07 PM
I would watch the blue lobster too. I used to have crawdads that I caught in one of my tanks when I was younger, and they would try to hunt down things in the tank. My tank was much smaller than yours is, but if you are worried I would suggest not taking the chance. Welcome though! Glad to have you here. Good luck with the puffers too, not sure witch ones you have, but I would check the site Chris ( xtc) gave you, it should help. I used to have GSP and Figure 8s in brackish tanks with monos. Loved them. Anyways, welcome again. Let us know how you work everything out with the blue lobster

Thanks so much, I am excited to have found a regional freshwater forum.

I will probably end up sending the lobster back tomorrow, as I am too fond of my bottom feeders to have any of them end up fish food, or lobster food in this case.

The puffers seem to be doing ok, and not terrorizing anything thus far...so I'll hang onto them and see how they do.

Regarding the other fish, like the clown knifefish and the elephant nose, does anyone have suggestions or things I should look out for? They all seem well fed and happy. I am anal about my tank and am constantly changing the water and making sure everything is stable etc...so I know the water quality is decent. And I only do water changes with RO water.

rolloffhill
09-09-2007, 07:12 PM
:welcome: Glad you found us!!:)

poel_19
09-09-2007, 07:16 PM
how big is the clown knife??

etc
09-09-2007, 07:18 PM
He isn't too big right now, although I know he is going to be big...how big I didn't know until I went home and did some research. Again, one of those LFS things...I shouldn't trust their salesmen...especially the ones that work on commission.

Right now he is approximately 5-6 inches I think...

Mind you, the salesman that told me the knifefish would be perfect for my tank was one that sold me an arrowana for it as well :rolleyes1: Now I know better :confuzeld:

xtc
09-09-2007, 08:24 PM
I'm thrilled to hear that about your puffers- we LOVE ours- he almost a member of the family. If you need snails- I'll be more than happy to fish some out for you.

I have had less than enjoyable encounters with the staff at DNA- I browse, but seldom buy from them. I like to deal with specific people at specific shops depending on the fish types I'm looking for- if at all possible. I have my favorites.

Stick around- we have a great site with lots of knowledgeable folks.

I'd try some frozen foods too- like bloodworms and krill on occasion.

and I'd love to see a picture of your tank- that sounds like a super cool variety!!

that link was www.thepufferforum.com and I use their encyclopedia.

lellison
09-09-2007, 09:29 PM
Yea, i have felt that I could direct ppl more at some of the stores I have been in than the staff there could. Not going to mention any stores specifiaclly. I have bought from DNA a few times due to the fact that their selection is larger than the stores close to my home, and it is the only store towards the metroplex that I know how to get to. lol. I would def. do research on seveal different sites before purchasing a fish, and I know how that goes. I have had to return a few fish in my day. Thing is, u know your fish best because you observe them, so use your judgement and enjoy most of all!

bra8ndy8
09-10-2007, 08:06 AM
Glad to have you here!!! You need to post some pictures when you get a chance....it would help with Chris harassing you over the puffer!! :brandy:

biggin
09-10-2007, 08:07 AM
Did you get the T. Schoutedeni at DNA? Going on what I have heard and seen, the best way to tell is from the spines on the stomach. The T. Schoutedeni show up earlier and more pronounced then a spotted. If you do not see the spines chances are not a T. schoutedeni…. Shape and color are both really hard to use. Feed a lot any small puffer he will look like a club… Green spots change color with mood so if he is not happy or stressed he will have a duller color.

Also Clowns are Puffer killers…. I have known a few people who have run into it. Black Ghost Knife would have been ok in a normal setting but in your tank it would get killed. They are very shy and puffers would really enjoy a snack on those moving fins while it sleeps.

Try feeding him 50/50 Blood worms and Brine shrimp and a ton of snails.

xtc
09-10-2007, 08:27 AM
Brandy!! You zip it young lady- I'm not harassing, just informing.;)

I've seen/heard more than my fair share of folks have the same experience at a LFS.

If you want harassment- sign up on thepufferforum and talk with them- they'll beat you to a bloody pulp! They're smart- and unfortunately, they know it.

biggin
09-10-2007, 08:30 AM
Pufferforum would have had 30 new members on this site and whipped everyone into submission by now....

etc
09-10-2007, 08:31 AM
Did you get the T. Schoutedeni at DNA? Going on what I have heard and seen, the best way to tell is from the spines on the stomach. The T. Schoutedeni show up earlier and more pronounced then a spotted. If you do not see the spines chances are not a T. schoutedeni…. Shape and color are both really hard to use. Feed a lot any small puffer he will look like a club… Green spots change color with mood so if he is not happy or stressed he will have a duller color.

Also Clowns are Puffer killers…. I have known a few people who have run into it. Black Ghost Knife would have been ok in a normal setting but in your tank it would get killed. They are very shy and puffers would really enjoy a snack on those moving fins while it sleeps.

Try feeding him 50/50 Blood worms and Brine shrimp and a ton of snails.

I haven't been able to notice the spines, so presumably I might have been misled? Their colors are still pretty vibrant, so they don't look stressed. If indeed they are brackish fish, and they are in freshwater, am I just slowly killing them?

You say the clowns are puffer killers. Are puffers targeted specifically by the clown? From what I understand I will need to get rid of the clown knifefish eventually because of his ultimate size.

I wonder if one of the members is in the North Dallas/Addison area and might be able to use their expertise to determine my specific puffer. I have a feeling you are right, they are brackish and not freshwater puffers. He said he kept them in freshwater as well, and that they had obviously been fine.

etc
09-10-2007, 08:35 AM
Oh, I forgot...

I got the puffers and lobster at USA Aquarium. When I called back later to make sure the puffers are freshwater, he seemed extremely annoyed...not a good sign.

xtc
09-10-2007, 08:47 AM
read this: http://puffernet.tripod.com/confusion.html

If it is truly what they said- it is a freshwater. If it's not- it's most likely a brackish fish.

biggin
09-10-2007, 08:51 AM
While not optimal your puffer will survive for a year or so in fresh, it would be like you being in a smog filled area not comfortable or real enjoyable, eventually leading to your death (sounds so dramatic...). Keep in mind they should live 5-10 years depending on your source. If the color is vibrant I would bet it is a green spot.

When the Clown is hungry the puffer will not be the last fish on his list of lunch items.... Puffers typically sleep at night and Clown hunt at night, I know my puffers have been hard to get moving after sleeping.... I just think the combo does not work well... a floating snack if you will.

Clowns get HUGE if you want to see a bunch of big ones check out Keller Farms they have them in the pond area....

I am in Carrollton while not an expert, I have seen both….

biggin
09-10-2007, 08:53 AM
Didn't he already post that link.... Reading.... hmmmm.... its overrated... JK


read this: http://puffernet.tripod.com/confusion.html

If it is truly what they said- it is a freshwater. If it's not- it's most likely a brackish fish.

etc
09-10-2007, 08:57 AM
While not optimal your puffer will survive for a year or so in fresh, it would be like you being in a smog filled area not comfortable or real enjoyable, eventually leading to your death (sounds so dramatic...). Keep in mind they should live 5-10 years depending on your source. If the color is vibrant I would bet it is a green spot.

When the Clown is hungry the puffer will not be the last fish on his list of lunch items.... Puffers typically sleep at night and Clown hunt at night, I know my puffers have been hard to get moving after sleeping.... I just think the combo does not work well... a floating snack if you will.

Clowns get HUGE if you want to see a bunch of big ones check out Keller Farms they have them in the pond area....

I am in Carrollton while not an expert, I have seen both….

Maybe I could buy you a few rounds of beer, and you could come over and give me your opinion?

I really want to be responsible and make sure the environment is right for these little guys.

bra8ndy8
09-10-2007, 08:58 AM
XTC would come over if there was beer involved!! LOL

biggin
09-10-2007, 08:59 AM
Thats cool, I could stop by sometime, tomorrow I am busy but I should be free about any other time.

biggin
09-10-2007, 09:01 AM
You should make XTC come over for threating thepufferforum.... (They are very very smart knowledgable and have a lot of good info)

xtc
09-10-2007, 09:02 AM
I would take a few pics of them, top/bottom, etc. Register on thepufferforum and pose the question to them. Boxermom and Rocker (among others) will be able to tell you which one it is.

The only thing I have to go off of is what's generally available in the market. My guess is that they sent leopard puffers with the other name on the invoice- so an EXPERT would be the best way to go and Rocker is certainly an expert.

fishyjoe24
09-10-2007, 04:31 PM
just in my opinoin the puffers need to be in a brackish tank, and the lopster in a nother tank, he will bully the corys. i seen it done.

xtc
09-11-2007, 07:09 AM
Joey- you suck at read the last3 pages of info before posting. :hehe: Go sit next to Joel. roflmao

fishyjoe24
09-11-2007, 01:21 PM
i read all the page and am just giving my opinion, chris don't you have to go help your son with his home work.