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Gnaget
12-13-2011, 08:56 PM
I have a new used tank I got yesterday. I have it all setup with the water at the correct salinity, though temperature is proving problematic staying at 82 degrees even though my house temperature is closer to 68. I assume that will equalize out. Are my live rocks and live sand in danger?

I have 2 florescent tube lighting fixtures, but no bulbs. I was considering going to the aquarium store tomorrow to get bulbs. I'm sure they will tell me I need them, but do I?

snow999ball
12-13-2011, 09:25 PM
Your sand and rock should be fine. Mine was sitting at 80 for a while and everything lived. It could be your pumps giving off heat.

You will need some type of specialized lighting, the cost of lighting however depends on if you are trying to go reef or FOWLER (fish only with live rock). I don't think you'd have to worry to much with only rock in there right now, exept to get all the little critters used to the day/night cycle.

If I were you I'd do a bit of reserch, and slow things down a bit
not sure if you've already gotten this link http://www.dfwfishbox.com/forums/production/showthread.php?t=18082

What's the size of your tank? and how much live rock do you have?

Gnaget
12-14-2011, 09:47 AM
I've been watching the heater, which has the thermostat built in, and I question that 80 degree reading. I unplugged it for a couple of hours, and when I plugged it in it said 71 degrees. I watched the heater turn on and off for a while, and the temperature went up to 75. It didn't turn on again, and the temperature kept going up to 82. I'm going to pick up a thermometer today to verify.

I'm going to start out FOWLR, but would eventually like to go coral. I'm already resigned to take it slow, and I am certainly doing a lot of research reading a lot on that link you sent and other websites. My goal is to start introducing a single cheap fish in 2 weeks or whenever the cycle completes. Watch how it goes, and slowly add more.

The tank is 100 gallons, and I have 80 lbs of live sand and 80 lbs of live rock, or at least so I've been told.

Erniec
12-14-2011, 09:58 AM
What kinda of heater ?

snow999ball
12-14-2011, 12:04 PM
I got a heater for my setup but I dont use it cause it over heats my tank

Erniec
12-14-2011, 12:07 PM
I got a heater for my setup but I dont use it cause it over heats my tank

Well I think you have a faulty heater then, all heaters should have a temp controler on them unless you have a realy old heater

snow999ball
12-14-2011, 12:09 PM
it may just be where I have it cause it has turn off, not sure it works though, either way my equipment heats the tank enough :D

Gnaget
12-15-2011, 05:19 PM
The heater is a Johnlen 300W Micom Led Heater. The problem is the thermostat, I bought a thermometer to sit in the tank, and adjusted the temperature based on that. It is now set to 82 deg, and the tank temp is actually 75...

I started a spreadsheet to keep track of the cycle, and while it has only been 2 days, I am starting to note something. The ammonia is going up, yesterday it was .5, and today it is 1. The nitrites however are still at zero, and the nitrates have stayed at 15. I don't know where the nitrates are coming from, but with the lack of nitrites I'm wondering if it is possible that the live rock is now dead rock. Given the tank is only 3 days old now, I'm not worried quite yet

greeneyed
12-15-2011, 05:28 PM
The cycle goes ammonia>nitrites>nitrates.
But the nitrates can just be from detritus in the liverock and sand.

Erniec
12-15-2011, 06:23 PM
Could try some cheap hermit crabs and snails, to start with to test the waters. I got mine for a buck a pop at this new place in Irving "Saltwater Paradise" (finaly something not petco or petsmart in town)

snow999ball
12-15-2011, 06:44 PM
mabey nitrates are from water? not sure

dead rock would mean ammonia for the most part

I thought mine was dead but today I found out I have 4 bubble nems and a baby serpant star. I would take skill to kill all of the stuff living in your rock in such a short time cause there are so many nooks and crannys.

Erniec
12-16-2011, 12:21 AM
What kind of test kit are you using ?

Gnaget
12-17-2011, 10:09 PM
Still no nitrites... I'm using API chemical test kits

greeneyed
12-18-2011, 09:13 AM
Has your ammonia began to decline? You won't get nitrites until your ammonia begins ti lower. The bacteria that consumes the ammonia turn it into nitrites.

How old are you test kits?

Typical Tony
12-18-2011, 01:00 PM
Be patient, just let it run... keep up on your top off and you should be fine. If you want to speed up the process, buy more live rock and I also recommend Brightwell Bacter7.

Gnaget
12-18-2011, 05:49 PM
The ammonia is staying consistent at about .5 ppm, the nitrites are still at 0, and the nitrates have apparently gone down to 0 yet I haven't done a water change yet. The test isn't old, I just got it a few days ago. Are there chemistry testers with digital readouts to take away some of this color coded guesswork?

kleankord
12-18-2011, 05:57 PM
The ammonia is staying consistent at about .5 ppm, the nitrites are still at 0, and the nitrates have apparently gone down to 0 yet I haven't done a water change yet. The test isn't old, I just got it a few days ago. Are there chemistry testers with digital readouts to take away some of this color coded guesswork?

Yep. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/test-kits/hanna-checker

pope
12-18-2011, 08:18 PM
I'd just wait it out. Don't freak. If you moved the setup the rock is going to have some die-off which will cause cycle. Hopefully you mixed new saltwater when you set up, in which case you won't be reading nitrate yet. When you get ready to add "cheap" fish. Please for the love of god do yourself a favor and make sure you don't buy damsels.

Gnaget
12-18-2011, 09:34 PM
Yep. http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/products/test-kits/hanna-checker

Those don't check ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates, which is what I am most interested in right now

Typical Tony
12-18-2011, 10:38 PM
You're worrying too much, just let it cycle... It really isn't that hard to read the colors, the most important thing you would want is yellow for ammonia and light blue for nitrite. Until then just leave it alone, if you want to make sure just test it at home and bring a sample to a lfs and compare the two results.

jlcoop277
12-19-2011, 08:47 AM
I've got my 29 cycling right now,First salty. why shouldn't he buy damsels?

greeneyed
12-19-2011, 09:23 AM
Because though hardy, you will want them out eventually, and they are a pain to catch.

Get a clown. They are very hardy, and something you will want later.

pope
12-19-2011, 09:32 AM
Because though hardy, you will want them out eventually, and they are a pain to catch.

Get a clown. They are very hardy, and something you will want later.

This.

A lot of the cuter species grow up ugly, most get big, all are territorial. You want to choose fish carefully. Anything you want out later you might end up tearing out rockwork to catch.


Oh and do yourself a favor. Avoid tangs in that 29. That's opinion mixed with experience.

Typical Tony
12-19-2011, 09:35 AM
I'd go with a cuc (clean up crew) to help with the cycle rather than a fish, why? theyre inexpensive, are much hardier than fish, and they will help clean the tank.

and please for god sake, do research on the fish you are getting bc they will NOT get along with each others... I have seen too many sale threads with people selling off their stuff bc they rush into buying a fish and later found out its not compatible with other or that it's too "boring" bc it hides all the time.

Erniec
12-19-2011, 11:06 AM
[QUOTE=Typical Tony;303675]I'd go with a cuc (clean up crew) to help with the cycle rather than a fish, why? theyre inexpensive, are much hardier than fish, and they will help clean the tank.

QUOTE]


X2 on that, clean up crew first , They will help clean up the tank and get it ready for you, I bought some hermits and snails and my live rock looks so much nicer and the tank over all is doing better, the cost for my 5 hermits and 5 snails was just 10 bucks

jlcoop277
12-19-2011, 04:37 PM
Cool, I do want a clown or two. I was planning on some crabs and snails first. The 29 is just to start seeding rock and sand while I work on converting my 100 and finish the stand and such.

Gnaget
12-21-2011, 09:34 PM
I've been testing my water daily for 8 days now, and I'm still showing no nitrites or nitrates. I saw some nitrates the first few days, but since then it has been 0 without any water changes. I'm assuming it was some anomaly in the reading.

The ammonia is still present though, so I'm starting to think my live rock isn't very alive. I'm going to pick up a piece at the store tomorrow, and hopefully it'll propagate through. Should 1 piece suffice to bring it back to life, or do I need quite a bit? There is 80 lbs of rock in my 100 gal tank.

The other possibility is that it is normal to take this long for the ammonia to turn into nitrites. If so, by all means call me an idiot.

greeneyed
12-21-2011, 09:47 PM
Found this in tonys sticky at top of page. Maybe it will help.

http://www.nano-reef.com/articles/?article=8

Typical Tony
12-21-2011, 10:08 PM
Bring some water with you when you stop by at the store and have them test it, then compare that result to yours.

Depending on how big the piece it isn't going to cycle overnight, usually a piece of live rock into a tank with dead rocks will help shorten the time but that could be a week to maybe a month. If you really want to speed it up, ask the lfs to give you some of the skimmage from their skimmer and if they have a refugium, buy a handful of the macro-algae and have them bag that in their water.... dump all of that stuff in your tank. Be sure to check their tanks for pests before doing so but that should help speed your cycle up a bit.

jlcoop277
12-21-2011, 10:47 PM
I added some live sand and a handful of snails and a few hermit crabs to my 29 this week, everything is alive, but do i need to feed the H crabs anything?

Typical Tony
12-21-2011, 11:05 PM
I added some live sand and a handful of snails and a few hermit crabs to my 29 this week, everything is alive, but do i need to feed the H crabs anything?

yes they do eat too, if they go hungry they will go after the snails

waterdog
12-22-2011, 04:57 AM
For salt in Dallas, the one on Garland rd. was one of my favorite lfs. A good way I liked to judge my parameters was when my coraline algae took off good. I always enjoyed the enchinoderms, especially the holotheroids as in the sea cucumbers. Although you have to be careful with them as in the seaapples, as if not handled properly they can and will do damage. The cucumbers(some)do considerable cleaning of the sand. Also there are a lot of the sea slugs that are not only beautiful but facinating to watch. One of my favorite occupants of my tank was my three different species of conchs. I had three queens that grew to 3-4" while I had them,they get much larger. They are actually intellegent as octopus are.

Erniec
12-22-2011, 06:24 AM
I added some live sand and a handful of snails and a few hermit crabs to my 29 this week, everything is alive, but do i need to feed the H crabs anything?

I did the same thing I added hermits and snails to the nano, I added mine when I got the brown algae bloom on my LR. The hermits and snails kicked ass the first night and cleaned all the rock off the algae that had grown.

Now the tank has almost has no greenish type algae left so I been dropping these tiny kelp pellets to feed them.

Make sure your protien skimmer is working right also

pope
12-22-2011, 09:02 AM
That brown algae bloom is diatom. It would have disappeared in a day or two anyway, and is usually an indicator of traditional cycle completion.

Live rock will always have die-off when it's moved. There are millions of DELICATE life forms inside (several of which die when exposed to air) which is what makes it alive. Depending on how you handled the rock during the move you may never see a nitrite "spike". There *may* have been enough bacteria left alive inside the rock that it simply needs time to multiply.

The better mentality is "soft cycle" if that makes sense. You'll still go through the stages but they may be drastically subdued. Just give it time. It will realistically take a month to six weeks still. Just think, once you're done with ammonia-nitrite-nitrate you still have another 3-6 months before the system really "locks in".

If you feel like risking it just to see movement... Hermits are pretty hardy, and feeding with some sinking pellets every few days won't hurt anything. My last buid was a tear down/move job. It came with hermits that survived the full on cycle.

Gnaget
12-22-2011, 02:43 PM
I went to the aquarium store, and talked to the clerk, and I got some information that doesn't click with everything else I have heard. He said that ammonia was the end of the cycle, and that the nitrites are turned into nitrates, which are then turned into ammonia. I asked a couple times, and explained the nitrogen cycle as I knew it, and he insisted I was wrong.

My understanding is when things die off, or the waste products from fish, ammonia is created, which the bacteria in the live rock turn into nitrites and then nitrates.

He had tested my water, and said I was almost at the end of the cycle with the ammonia high, but I'm certain that is the beginning of the cycle...

greeneyed
12-22-2011, 02:50 PM
He is wrong.

Erniec
12-22-2011, 02:54 PM
hrere is a link you might want to read, Someone might have a better one on the nitro cycle

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/bionitrogencycle/a/What-Is-The-Nitrogen-Cycling-Process-In-A-Marine-Saltwater-Aquarium.htm

Gnaget
12-22-2011, 03:00 PM
He is wrong.

That is what I thought, but I didn't want to be presumptuous as I am new to this.

Gnaget added 3 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...


hrere is a link you might want to read, Someone might have a better one on the nitro cycle

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/bionitrogencycle/a/What-Is-The-Nitrogen-Cycling-Process-In-A-Marine-Saltwater-Aquarium.htm

That link answered my question by giving me a concrete timeline to expect, thanks. I'm on day 9 today, so I should start to see my nitrites pick up soon.

kleankord
12-22-2011, 03:05 PM
hrere is a link you might want to read, Someone might have a better one on the nitro cycle

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/bionitrogencycle/a/What-Is-The-Nitrogen-Cycling-Process-In-A-Marine-Saltwater-Aquarium.htm


In that link, was another link of an animated nitrogen cycle:
http://saltaquarium.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=saltaquarium&cdn=homegarden&tm=9&f=22&su=p284.13.342.ip_p504.6.342.ip_&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&st=11&zu=http%3A//reefsources.itgo.com/guide/biological.html

Typical Tony
12-22-2011, 03:24 PM
He is actually right....


Ammonia is the end of the cycle, the LIFE cycle! :hehe: