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supra11s
03-26-2010, 08:16 PM
I don't want to get into the whole saga but i just wanted to post a fair warning for whomever it may apply to, I would be weary of r/o water from True Percula. I would take a meter with you before you buy it. I myself will not be purchasing anymore from there.

Dr. Awkward
03-26-2010, 08:33 PM
Did you test the water and find something bad?

Austin
03-26-2010, 11:06 PM
IMO if you're making a thread and a statement like this you need to provide details/facts, otherwise it's just your opinion...

tsunderl
03-26-2010, 11:35 PM
Personally, I see no benefit from giving details. Seems like testing water you purchase from anywhere would be good practice. I'm sure whatever happened was not good or the statement wouldn't have been made.

Austin
03-27-2010, 12:14 AM
JMO. I know true perc runs a TDS meter on their RO unit (obviously) so Im just curious about the problem. I have bought some RO there for my drip systems dechlor dillution and hasn't caused me any problems. I'm not saying there isn't one, just wondering the symptoms because it could be something else other than their water. Sorry if that came across the wrong way. ;)

greeneyed
03-27-2010, 07:39 AM
If nothing else, even in a few words, what should be tested for?

T-Angel
03-27-2010, 08:08 AM
Testing is alway a good idea. I was buying my RO water from a LFS (that is now shut down) and decide to test one day. The PH was way down in the 6.3 - 6.5 area. Needing 7.0 or higher I had to start adding PH adjustments to their water. Of course I solved the problem by buying my own RO filter which has saved me the cost of the unit many times over.

Rift2Reef
03-27-2010, 08:17 AM
The True Percula uses the same RO/DI unit that I use and that's Spectrapure. It's one of the best units out there ($5,000+ system) I have the 1600 model and they have the 2700 model. It has a TDS unit built onto it and tells you exactly the quality of the water. Mine reads .000 all the time.

I'd really like to know what the situation is because I have had people buy RO/DI water and do a large water change on a freshwater aquarium and kill many fish not realizing that RO/DI has a PH of about 6 and has little to no minerals in it. It can shock fish with the drastic PH swing among other issues. You must reconstitute RO water with something(RO Right) before just adding it to your aquarium.

I think everyone needs details before jumping to conclusions because the scenario I just explained is often the scenario that causes the most issues.

tsunderl
03-27-2010, 09:10 AM
Good info, Dane. I've not used RO water myself but I did not realize the pH is that low.

I think I will stick with good ole Plano water. Haven't had a problem so far.
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Austin
03-27-2010, 09:58 AM
Exactly, thanks Dane. People don't realize it has been stripped of everything and is not good for water changes. Tap water and some prime is the best route. RO must be buffered before use, thus the reason I wanted an explanation of the problem. I only use it to dillute dechlorinator.


The True Percula uses the same RO/DI unit that I use and that's Spectrapure. It's one of the best units out there ($5,000+ system) I have the 1600 model and they have the 2700 model. It has a TDS unit built onto it and tells you exactly the quality of the water. Mine reads .000 all the time.

I'd really like to know what the situation is because I have had people buy RO/DI water and do a large water change on a freshwater aquarium and kill many fish not realizing that RO/DI has a PH of about 6 and has little to no minerals in it. It can shock fish with the drastic PH swing among other issues. You must reconstitute RO water with something(RO Right) before just adding it to your aquarium.

I think everyone needs details before jumping to conclusions because the scenario I just explained is often the scenario that causes the most issues.

bandito974
03-27-2010, 11:19 AM
was in true perc a while back and Marc told me they had to replace a dudes entire system, a guy went in for RO and was given salt, Killed all his Discus, so even Marc suggested test the water from his store:exactly:

Austin
03-27-2010, 11:38 AM
That's not a quality issue. That was a mistake. We're talking about their RO quality. And I'm guessing by entire system you just mean his fish they killed, the salt wouldn't have ruined the hardware.

supra11s
03-27-2010, 12:18 PM
ok I was trying to stay out of posting the long story but if ya'll want to hear it, here you go. I was lowering the hardness in one of my tanks (no fish in it) so i was doing water changes with pure r/o until i got my desired number. The r/o unit I have could not produce it fast enough for me so I went to buy some from Percula. My tank was at 150ppm. I did a 50 percent change and it only dropped to 122. It didnt make a lot of since and it wasn't where I wanted to be so I went back to Percula to buy some more water with my TDS Meter. I asked to test their water before I bought it. My water at my house test at 2, and yes I know that 0 is ideal and i need to replace some of my filters but under 10 in my opinion is ok for what im tryin to do. Anyway, I tested their water and it read 72. So i said something to them and they guaranteed me that there was no way that my meter was right before they even did anything. I told them that I was pretty sure my meter was in the ballpark anyway and that even at 72 they weren't even close. So after the person working felt the need to inform me that my meter was cheap and obviously wrong, (its a digital pen by HM Digital, paid 40 bucks for it from franks tanks, havent had a problem with it since I bought it.), we went to the back where their r/o system was. The meter in the back attached to their system that they said never read over 2 said 35. Then they said it didn't work unless it was running(this may be true, I'm not familiar with industrial setups), they turned it on and it still did not drop to 2. So the guy working said he would pull out his expensive pen meter and calibrate it and test it. Lol it came up 72. So they checked the 2 fill lines filling their drums. One tested at 0 which was perfect, but the other tested at 171 or something close to that. Pretty much explained the 72 coming out at the end if they were mixing 171 and 0 to me. Pretty much confirmed my suspicions. Anyway, they apologized and said they would refund my money on the water I had just bought earlier that day. I was happy at that point, no real harm done. However, as I waited at the front, 10 mins later I was approached by the same person working that had his expensive pen that he calibrated, and was told by him that basically he couldn't read his own meter right and that when it said 72 that it was reading .072. and that meant it was less than one and that there water was fine. He informed me that they werent going to refund my money, weren't going to change their water, and I could buy some if I wanted. I was pretty much pissed so I picked up my jugs and left. I took my very same meter and went to petorama, tested there water and it came out to 4. That is 68 less than what Perculas came out to on the very same meter. Again my unit at home tested at 2. So if I'm in the wrong i apologize for wasting peoples time on this post and for bringing negative light on a store but unless I am completely wrong on how these TDS meters work, then again i pass on my concern for buying r/o water from Percula. Feel free to weigh in

flamenco-t
03-27-2010, 02:24 PM
ok i was trying to stay out of posting the long story but if ya'll want to hear it, here you go. I was lowering the hardness in one of my tanks (no fish in it) so i was doing water changes with pure r/o until i got my desired number. The r/o unit i have could not produce it fast enough for me so i went to buy some from percula. My tank was at 150ppm. I did a 50 percent change and it only dropped to 122. It didnt make a lot of since and it wasn't where i wanted to be so i went back to percula to buy some more water with my tds meter. I asked to test their water before i bought it. My water at my house test at 2, and yes i know that 0 is ideal and i need to replace some of my filters but under 10 in my opinion is ok for what im tryin to do. Anyway, i tested their water and it read 72. So i said something to them and they guaranteed me that there was no way that my meter was right before they even did anything. I told them that i was pretty sure my meter was in the ballpark anyway and that even at 72 they weren't even close. So after the person working felt the need to inform me that my meter was cheap and obviously wrong, (its a digital pen by hm digital, paid 40 bucks for it from franks tanks, havent had a problem with it since i bought it.), we went to the back where their r/o system was. The meter in the back attached to their system that they said never read over 2 said 35. Then they said it didn't work unless it was running(this may be true, i'm not familiar with industrial setups), they turned it on and it still did not drop to 2. So the guy working said he would pull out his expensive pen meter and calibrate it and test it. Lol it came up 72. So they checked the 2 fill lines filling their drums. One tested at 0 which was perfect, but the other tested at 171 or something close to that. Pretty much explained the 72 coming out at the end if they were mixing 171 and 0 to me. Pretty much confirmed my suspicions. Anyway, they apologized and said they would refund my money on the water i had just bought earlier that day. I was happy at that point, no real harm done. However, as i waited at the front, 10 mins later i was approached by the same person working that had his expensive pen that he calibrated, and was told by him that basically he couldn't read his own meter right and that when it said 72 that it was reading .072. And that meant it was less than one and that there water was fine. He informed me that they werent going to refund my money, weren't going to change their water, and i could buy some if i wanted. I was pretty much pissed so i picked up my jugs and left. I took my very same meter and went to petorama, tested there water and it came out to 4. That is 68 less than what perculas came out to on the very same meter. Again my unit at home tested at 2. So if i'm in the wrong i apologize for wasting peoples time on this post and for bringing negative light on a store but unless i am completely wrong on how these tds meters work, then again i pass on my concern for buying r/o water from percula. Feel free to weigh in

paragraph ?

T.c.T
03-27-2010, 03:21 PM
That's suck :(:(.
All the TDS meters have 3#. When it read 072 it is 72ppm. My HM TDS/temp does the same thing reading, it read my RO at home right at 003. Only thing read below 1 is the conductivity meter which is also measure the water quality, but in the different way. It uses to indicate when to change out the DI resin.

supra11s
03-27-2010, 03:22 PM
i didn't proof read. its in sentence form. dont read it if you don't like the format. I'm not looking to get published

spacefish34
04-15-2010, 04:23 AM
Hello.I have worked in freshwater at The True Percula for close to two years.I consider Supra11 to be a friend as well as a good patron having shared tips and learned some as well from his path through Discus.I was also present the day said event happened.I think it can be summed up as ill communication.However,either the R/O was "bad" or it wasnt.I watched the guys test and tested myself and found nothing wrong.And we had no other complaints or issues that day or since.I stand by the livestock and the product we sell 100%.Dane said it best though,you should ALWAYS test a stores water before putting it in your tanks.I dislike the fact that Supra11 may not come in again,but thats the way it goes sometimes.However,we are all in this hobby/lifestyle together and can learn from all of each others mistakes...

spacefish34 added 22 Minutes and 39 Seconds later.

iron
04-15-2010, 08:30 AM
Might of been easier to refund the guy his money in the long run. Considering all the business that could of been hindered due to this and the fact that you may have lost a customer which would of generated income. I am saying this in a spectators position, and as a potential consumer. With what he said it just reflects badly.

J*Hawk*83
04-15-2010, 08:45 AM
I agree with Iron. Coming from a hot headed customer, myself, its nice to know that a company/business can stand behind their product(s) and are willing to issue a refund to keep customer satisfaction high

Vividcichlids
04-15-2010, 10:23 AM
IHow hard can it be to read a TDS meter? Mine has 3 digits. Whatever the number is, that is what it is. No decimals, notta. I guess it could have been a calibration issue but either way a customer was lost for less than $10 of revenue that cost the store 10 or 15 gallons of water. Quality customer service. Just my 2 cents....

pillguy
04-15-2010, 11:05 AM
I manage a buisness myself, we will frequently give refunds even when nothing was wrong just to build buisness relationships. That being said wanted to point out since I have a chemistry background that RO/distilled water will have a ph of around 6 to 6.2 due to dissolved carbon dioxide. Dane is most likely on target about shocked fish.

rolltide#1
04-15-2010, 11:47 AM
I would like to say that the customer service at percula is very spotty. The many times ive been there, ive only found good service a couple of times. Most of the time there seems to be a click of people that dont care about customer service. Just my opinion.
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iron
04-15-2010, 01:58 PM
I found this to be true in other lfs as well. Which I really dont get. Why be all snooty with customers? Idiotic. Dane isnt even all that snooty. lol Well I havent seen a picture of his nose yet, might be a whopper!!!! :D

supra11s
04-15-2010, 06:03 PM
Lol i wasn't looking to cause fish drama. From what I have seen the livestock at Percula is on par with the rest of the LfS around. I wasn't telling people not to buy fish from the store. I was just informing them of what myself and the person working there got on their meters when the test were conducted in my presence, and what was told to me by the person conducting the test. I would however like to know how a number showing up on a freshly calibrated meter is not supposed to be the proper number? Especially if it is still reading accurate on other water sources. Or why a zero or under 10 ppm reading could not be made in my presence while I was at the store. If you are willing to test and it shows negatively, why not show the retest that shows it positively? Why have calibration solutions if they dont work? anyway, hopefully this incident didn't cost me the friends that I had there. Especially since my issue wasn't with either of them. And if the person from the store on here is Chris, he is very knowledgeable and is always willing to talk fish.

Dr. Awkward
04-15-2010, 07:28 PM
I've just got to laugh at this. In what other hobby would you find people arguing over buying water?

I personally stopped going to True Perc because of the customer service. Some people who work there are great but others, mostly management, really know how to start a fight.

rolltide#1
04-15-2010, 09:37 PM
Agree.....cant wear skinny jeans cause my ego wont fit. :)
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spacefish34
04-16-2010, 02:16 AM
In hindsight,i do agree with the posts about the importance of keeping the customer.Although I had no hand in the refunding or lack there of,I can see how that would have went over better.That shall be my lesson learned.And Supra,theres no hard feelings all the way around.I hope you will still come in.I would miss our discussions.And for that matter, I kind of agree with the above post about spotty service at all lfs's.While on a personal hiatus,I got a chance to visit the majority of them.In my opinion,each had things I liked and things I felt were missing.For those who just patron these stores and have never been employed in this industry I'll say this;as a whole this industry has seen better days.It's no secret that competition can overshadow the fact that we all share a love of the same thing,remember them,those little(or huge)finned,rayed,spiny,pretty,ugly,things called fish and all that live with them and around them?Hopefully we can get this industry back to some glory days.Or,they might get sick of all the "crap"and swim away for good...Later.

scheri11
04-16-2010, 08:03 AM
I will not be buying saltwater either.
I don't want to get into the whole saga but i just wanted to post a fair warning for whomever it may apply to, I would be weary of r/o water from True Percula. I would take a meter with you before you buy it. I myself will not be purchasing anymore from there.
Posted via Mobile Device

OOwl
04-16-2010, 08:35 AM
I'd like to thank Spacefish34 for his post. I had stopped shopping at the TP totally after their best employee left (one who I felt knew the most about the freshwater fish and was truthful and gracious in sharing his knowledge). I found most of the other customer service to be really poor (several employees were even overtly rude). However, on a chance visit while waiting for a friend shopping at the stupid little "tea party" store next door, I went in to see how things were going. I was happily surprised that not only was Chris back but the entire store staff was a whole lot more friendly. I have never purchased water there (and based on this report I would certainly be very wary of doing so); however, I have purchased fish there, and, without exception, they have lived and been healthy, robust fish. I think LFSs are only as good as the staff they have representing them. If TP keeps adding honest, conscientious, knowledgeable employees, like Chris and Matt, I believe their "image" and reputation will improve. I know I'll be back. :)

ayla
04-16-2010, 12:33 PM
The prices are what keep me from going to True Perc. The staff was friendly to me, actually VERY friendly, the one time I went in. The only skill I need in a fish store employee beyond pleasantness is the ability to catch and bag fish. I do my own research so their knowledge or lack thereof means exactly diddly-squat to me. :hehe: