overflow box with air lifter pump...

[kewlkatdady]

I'm looking for a way to get the water from my non drilled tank to the refugium below the tank...

I'm a bit skeptical about the J tube siphon boxes...someone chime in here...

I've found these: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3642&Ntt=overflow&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

Anyone have any thoughts as I'v never used one of these setups before.




My main worry is when the power goes out...how does the siphon know when to stop....and then start back up when the power comes back on.

[greeneyed]

Post #26

[kewlkatdady]

Post #26did i miss something?

[rolloffhill]

:confuzeld: me too

[AndrewH]

I think greedeyed means, post numbers 26 and 27 from this thread (which I could be wrong).

http://www.dfwfishbox.com/showthread.php?t=772

[greeneyed]

Your right Andrew.
PWI.:drunken SO::drunken SO:
Sorry everyone.:sorrysign:
LOL

[AndrewH]

I'm looking for a way to get the water from my non drilled tank to the refugium below the tank...

I'm a bit skeptical about the J tube siphon boxes...someone chime in here...

I've found these: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3642&Ntt=overflow&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

Anyone have any thoughts as I'v never used one of these setups before.




My main worry is when the power goes out...how does the siphon know when to stop....and then start back up when the power comes back on.

Here (http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/overflow.htm) you go... this should help explain it a little.

Bascially, there are two chambers, one on each side of the glass, and the water level cannot drop below the interior chamber. If the power goes out, the tank will drain into the overflow and ultimately into the sump, or refugium in your case, until the water level in the tank is below the top of the interior chamber. If the power comes back on, the pump in the refugium will start pumping water back into the tank causing it to "overflow" in to the overflow box and back to the refrugium. (you don't have to do anything except keep the pump plugged in to get it started again)

Here's another picture that might help explain the overflow box.
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/overflow.jpg

If it's designed correctly, your syphon tube will always have water in it even if the other compartments are emptied.

[AndrewH]

Your right Andrew.
PWI.:drunken SO::drunken SO:
Sorry everyone.:sorrysign:
LOL


It's all good, I got your back! :hehe:

[AndrewH]

(was re-reading my "explanation" post and forgot some stuff)

There's a bit of an overlap from the water in the tank and the water in the refrugium. Meaning, if the power goes out, the tank will drain so that it's below the interior chamber (which shouldn't be too much watre), but you'll also have the water from all the piping, so you need to make sure you have a little extra capacity built into the refrugium to keep it from overflowing.

Also, you need to make sure you put in a siphon break on the pump to tank water line as it'll create a siphon if the power goes out and drain the tank to the bottom of it's pipe. Most people just put a small hole in the piping below (or even right above) the waterline in the tank.

[AndrewH]

Here you go, this page shows the process with animation (http://www.cyberreefguru.com/general/overflow/overflow.html)

[greeneyed]

Thanks for that link Andrew, lots of good reading on that site.

[greeneyed]

I have a question though.
In case of power outage, the siphon will be broken on the "U" tubes.
These tubes are over the height of the tank top.
When power is restored the overflow will fill back up from the pump in the W/D filter.
But what causes the siphon to start back up through the "U" tubes?
Seems to me, the would be full of air, and the way water always is self leveling,
in my mind it seems the water would have to be over the top of the tank to start the siphon again.

Maybe I'm missing something???

[AndrewH]

You are correct, if the siphon on the U tube is broken, the system will not start back up without you getting the air outta the U tube again.

The siphon on the U tube will not be broke. The level of water at the ends of the U tube stay constant.
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/overflow.jpg
In this image, it shows what will happen if the power goes out. The waterline at the left is inside the tank (light blue, the dark blue is inside the overflow box keeping the siphon). It will stop draining at the top of the interior chamber. The ends of the U tube stay under water, so that the siphon isn't broken.

[greeneyed]

Thanks again. I see now where the compartment behind the tank has a "wall" in it.
Sorry, didn't really look at your picture until after I had posted.

[kewlkatdady]

ok...I see...its the second chamber that makes it work and hold the siphon...

I think a 20 tall will do what I'm looking for...but I still have to take some measurements...

thanks all for the good info...

[rolloffhill]

I have a question though.
In case of power outage, the siphon will be broken on the "U" tubes.
These tubes are over the height of the tank top.
When power is restored the overflow will fill back up from the pump in the W/D filter.
But what causes the siphon to start back up through the "U" tubes?
Seems to me, the would be full of air, and the way water always is self leveling,
in my mind it seems the water would have to be over the top of the tank to start the siphon again.

Maybe I'm missing something???

You are correct, if the siphon on the U tube is broken, the system will not start back up without you getting the air outta the U tube again.

The siphon on the U tube will not be broke. The level of water at the ends of the U tube stay constant.
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/overflow.jpg
In this image, it shows what will happen if the power goes out. The waterline at the left is inside the tank (light blue, the dark blue is inside the overflow box keeping the siphon). It will stop draining at the top of the interior chamber. The ends of the U tube stay under water, so that the siphon isn't broken.


That is the purpose of the "air lifter pump" it gets the air out so the siphon can restart.

[kewlkatdady]

but is the air lifter pump needed if the siphon is never broken?

[rolloffhill]

It will be broken in a power outage, unless you are there to start the siphon again.

That is the way I am reading it. I don't have any experience with O/F boxes, my tank is drilled so it is all gravity.

[AndrewH]

With my overflow box, I have to insert an air line tube up into the center of the U tube and suck out all the air to start the siphon. With the air pump, it does that for you, but you'd have to turn it on if you lost the siphon.

No, if the power goes out, you will not lose the siphon. The only way to lose the siphon is to pick up the U tube above the "dark blue lines" in the image above.

I'll bring my over flow tomorrow and how yawl what happens :D.

[greeneyed]

I can now understand more Andrews conventional "U" tube overflow more so that the air lifter.
Do the air pump on run shortly after power outage?
If not would it not suck up water while the siphon is intact?

[AndrewH]

Exactly, you can't run the air lift pump all the time. You only turn it on when you need to create a siphon (once in a blue moon) and you can just as easily do it the ol' air tube manual way.

And I could be wrong. It seem in the image the air pump they're using has two lines. My guess is that it runs all the time and will pump water after the siphon is established. Dunno for sure as I have an old school U tube type.

[kewlkatdady]

I had a overflow box on my old 55 (10 years ago)...
but I was 20 then and didn't give a rip about design and how things work...

I know that sometime the siphon would break, but not always when the power went out...:confuzeld::confuzeld:

We'll see tomorrow.

[Trippy]

what size sump do u think we need to run a 150 g tank ?

[Wampcat]

You can't go wrong getting the largest SUMP that will fit. I run a Oceanic Reef Ready 3 with my 225 g. I think it is a 50 gal capacity, but actual water volume is about 35 gal.

[AndrewH]

You can't go wrong getting the largest SUMP that will fit. I run a Oceanic Reef Ready 3 with my 225 g. I think it is a 50 gal capacity, but actual water volume is about 35 gal.

x2 :hehe:

[rolloffhill]

x3 stuff as much tank(sump) under your stand as is physically possible. Bigger is better.