Want to Switch to Sand

[greeneyed]

I love the look of a sand substrate:cool:. I have absolutely no idea what it takes to care for it though?:confuzeld:

So any tips and tricks?:exactly:
Seen posts for buying sandblasting medium, what size?

Does the sand underneath get nasty from not being cleaned?

Instead of vacuuming, do you just light use the siphon to suck up the poop?

Also considering I have gravel now(with no sump) it contains most of the bacteria. Would it be best to empty the tank and start over?:wha:

HELP:confused::confused:

[Catherine]

I have sand in my planted 135g at the front of the tank as a non-growing space. I gently go over the top with the syphon hose if there is algae that needs syphoning off. I don't think the sand would go anoxic underneath, but I haven't truly got enough experience with it to know for sure. I do have 8 albino cories to run around as little sand sifters so there shouldn't be any food stuffs in there at all.
Tip: Go to Lowe's and buy play sand. It is $2.50 for a 20lb bag. I used only one bag on the front areas of my tank to a depth of a few inches. I did wash it in the wheelbarrow with a hose to get as much loose powdery dirt off. Then I just used a margerine container and put in in the tank. (Lower your water level significantly to avoid clouding.)

If you have a tank full of rock, you will have to either push it into areas where you want to keep it, or tear down the tank. Do you have an undergravel filter? If so, get that thing out now, they usually go bad after a few years and necessitate tear down then. What filtration are you using? If you have HOB or canister filter, you are fine.

[kewlkatdady]

To use sand... No undergravel filter can be used.
Do NOT use play sand as it is very dirty and takes alot more effort to clean; use pool filter sand. You can get PFS at most home depots in the garden area. All home depots have play sand but only some will have pool filter sand. The PFS that I got is Pavestone brand in a blue and clear plastic bag.

As far as the maintenance... lightly siphon poo off the top of the sand is about all you need or can do. In order to prevent nitrate build up...gently run your fingers through the sand every time you do a water change. This will release any of the anarobic bacteria into the water to be processed. If you do this everytime, their is nothing to worry about.

I'd suggest a UGJ system to help keep poo from collecting on the bottom.

I've used sand many times before, but only used an UGJ system as of late and I LOVE IT!

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[kewlkatdady]

oh and depending on your filters...you may need to raise the intake of your filters to prevent sand getting into impellers...this will destroy a filter.

I turn my filters off when I'm doing water changes and leave it off for at least 10 minutes afterwards to make sure the sand has a chance to re settle.

[arnold]

I run the Lowe's play sand Catherine does, it works great. I have primarily earth eaters now, no need for under gravel. The Lowe's play sand is big nuff to not get in the HOB or canisters, I have never had that problem.
Actually UGF's are one of the best filtration methods around in my opine, huge biofilter once seeded and pulls particulate out of the water column and takes care of dead fish and plants pretty well up to a point. The biggest problem with them is they are sold to folks who don't know how to maintain them. If all you are gonna do is put it in and let it run till it crashes you will usually get 1 or 2 yrs out of one before it goes to shit. Properly maintained a UGF can rum well for YEARS. (reminds me, I need to pull maint on the one I still use):cool:

[kewlkatdady]

I agree about the UGF but with gravel only...one cannot be used with sand.

[bra8ndy8]

ok I have a ug with gravel but have wanted to do sand .....I have two aquaclear 110 and a fluval f5 whatever.......what would I do about air without a ug???? and is that enough filtration for my 300?

[greeneyed]

Thanks for all the responses!
Sorry didn't get back last night, had to take our 2 and my niece out Trick or Treating.
Well, really don't wanna tear down one of the tanks right now.
My wife really likes the sand look, so maybe I can talk her into just getting a bigger tank to put the sand in:cool:.

So as long as you stir up the sand with the WC, there won't be a nitrate buildup?

When you say UGJ, is that under gravel jet? Or are you saying put a powerhead to blow across the bottom?

Both my tanks currently have hob filters.
But I would like to build some wet/dry filters for them.

OK, I'm off to try and work on the wife.
But I'm sure it will be after Christmas before we do anything as far as a bigger tanks goes.

Thanks guys.
Anyone else with opinions, I would love to hear them.

[bra8ndy8]

I'm still waiting on a answer..............................

[kewlkatdady]

the AC110's and the FX5 have the ability to agitate the surface enough to help with the gas exchange....YOU have to aim them(the FX5) properly....

[bra8ndy8]

what about oxegyn?

[greeneyed]

I think he saying that your filters would break the surface tension to allow
oxygen to absorb into the water. If I'm not mistaken, that all it takes. Break the surface tension.

[kewlkatdady]

ripples at the top means gas exchange...

[arnold]

I agree about the UGF but with gravel only...one cannot be used with sand.

Not trying to nit pick, :poke: but you CAN run UGF w sand, you have to modify the filter and as far as I'm concerned for all intents and porpusys you is right, to big a PITA.:hehe:

[bra8ndy8]

AWWW OK~~~ Gotcha! Does everyone agree? I don't want my fish to be suffering for oxygen!

[AndrewH]

Yeah, I agree. UGF with sand PITB. HOB and/or canisters will work to break the surface enough to aerate the water. It doesn't take too much. Anything that "ripples" the surface will do it (or breaks the surface outright, like bubbles). Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerated_water) a good read on the subject. The last paragraph says it all.

Sand is a nice substrate and there are lots of loaches and other digging fish out there that'll help stir it to prevent dead spots, but definitely need to stir it by hand as often as possible.

[rolloffhill]

But please for all humanity don't use horseface loaches. Just the very discussion of that subject could cause a split and a new forum.......:rolleyes1:

:poke::boxing::beatdeadhorse::fw:

[biggin]

Call me in a year when they are 65" long and have killed you and your fish...

I forgot about that... thanks for bringing that back up...

But please for all humanity don't use horseface loaches. Just the very discussion of that subject could cause a split and a new forum.......:rolleyes1:

:poke::boxing::beatdeadhorse::fw:

[bra8ndy8]

ummmm ok...I have ten clowns! whatever a damn horse????

[flamenco-t]

I did this on my old 75 a while back. Used a pool filter sand from Leslie or any other pool supply. You won't need to rinse them but once.

Take out your UGF, your AC110 and fluval FX5 can do much better job than your UGF filter. On my 240 I have 1 AC110 and a big wet dry.

I did it while everything was in the tank as well, just pull all the gravel out, turn off your filters, powerhead and etc and dump sand slowly. I used a 1 gal pitcher.

Things to watch out for. You need to stir the sand up every week or so, to release the nitrate build up. My Ph when I didn't stir it up for a month went all the way down to 4.xx. Once I stir them up and did water change, it climbed back up to 6.6 ish..

[bra8ndy8]

WOW Flame!!! That is beautiful!! And thanks for the advice!! What is the spotted fish in the background?

[Sleepingtiger]

Used silica sand from a pavestone company. They had different sizes of silica sand for me to choose from, I chose #2. 200lbs cost me $20. Its great sand! Its heavy enough so i can use my python and its dense enough to where the detritus doesn't fall through.

initial setup was a pita, washing 200lbs of sand took me almost an hour. It was all worth it though, water was only slightly cloudy after I put it in.

once every couple of weeks i stir up the sand to avoid building up any toxic gases.

I also have 2 powerheads running on a wavemaker to stir up the bottom.

[biggin]

Where did you get it?

Used silica sand from a pavestone company. They had different sizes of silica sand for me to choose from, I chose #2. 200lbs cost me $20. Its great sand! Its heavy enough so i can use my python and its dense enough to where the detritus doesn't fall through.

initial setup was a pita, washing 200lbs of sand took me almost an hour. It was all worth it though, water was only slightly cloudy after I put it in.

once every couple of weeks i stir up the sand to avoid building up any toxic gases.

I also have 2 powerheads running on a wavemaker to stir up the bottom.

[bra8ndy8]

What's a wavemaker? Can you post a pic of it? Thanks!

[xtc]

I just bought a new/old Tetra Press book "Problems and Mishaps" and was reading that switching from an undergravel filter system to a HOB or canister filter (even when establishing the new filter first) can be a major problem with the nitrate cycle.

Brandy, I know that applies to your situation- so I'd be very careful if you do go that route with your big tank.

[bra8ndy8]

Hummmm.....so what does it say to do?

[kewlkatdady]

As long as you run the new canister or HOB for at least 6-8 weeks (before you change to sand) to allow the bio load to build in the new filter you will be fine.

Also, you should remove the fish from the tank because chances are there will be a huge nitrate spike when you start removing all the old gravel. Get tank full and de chlorinated and after a couple of hours you can add the fish and the filters...you may have a spike in the ammo and nitrites, but it should be minor. Bio Spira would be a good idea to prevent this.

[xtc]

If you do that- I have about 6 10-15 gal tubs that you can put the fish in for storage while you take on this project. Shouldn't be too bad.

[bra8ndy8]

Well I added the FX5 a week ago...but have had the aquaclear on there for months....I don't know if I am going to go sand....I'm worried about the seeing of all the poop. I have about 100 fishies in there!!

[kewlkatdady]

you definately see alot of poo...
unless you do an UGJ system

[eklikewhoa]

I just recently changed my 135g to sand from gravel/UGF and I gavel vac'ed a few days before to get the most crap out of the gravel.

Came substrate change day I just re-routed my wet/dry so that it would recirculate itself and then took all the water out.

Put all my fish in a 30g tub drained all the water till I couldn't anymore and then scooped all the gravel out. Took the UGF out and then fill with a bit of water....siphoned again to get the remaining poop out.

Fill tank with new sand on top of egg-crate and then water....used de-chlorinator and adjusted temp to what it was before. I had waited a few hours but after that I un-re-routed the wet/dry and I was done.

No spikes or problems with the nitrogen cycle.

Also with all the flow I have in my tank the poop piles up in the two piles on the outer corners which makes it a breeze to siphon up when water change day comes.

For Filtration on my tank I have....

-Wet/Dry...sump is about 30g but only filled with about 10g...eheim return pump rated about 800gph
-Magnum 350
-RenaXp3
-2x MJ1200