rescue?

[TDsapp]

Has anyone from this forum been to DNA recently? I was in there on Friday and they had a BIG Pacu, around 9 to 10 inches, and had him in a small tank. It was probably around 10 gallons or less and the poor guy could just about not even turn around.

I have a feeling he was a turn in for credit or something and they are just trying to get rid of him. They had a price on the tank of $9.99 (I think..) I know it was cheap for a fish that size.

If someone has the room you might give them a call.

Tim

[tsunderl]

DNA takes in fish that outgrow tanks, such as Pacus and RTCs. It's part of a program they are signed up with and I can't recall the name of it at this time. Basically, they try to rehome them but if they are not successful, they are to humanely dispose of it. Sad, but it's part of the hobby. As long as those fish are sold, this program will be in place.

BTW, I was there yesterday as they were closing and did not see the Pacu. I did see the sale sign you mention. A 9-10" pacu is actually small. I rehomed mine when she got to be 14-16 inches.

[biggin]

So they are in a program to deal with fish that get too big for the tanks…. But they sell the same fish when they are small….and cute….and are going to eat all of someone’s neons, mollies and tetras….
<O:p</O:p
I know a lot of LFS who refuse to sell fish like RTC and Pacus…. If more LFS would actually take more efforts like that there would be no need for DNA to clean up their own mess….
<O:p</O:p
My first thought was that’s cool that they take the fish then I thought “Wait, they keep RTC and Pacus for sale on a regular basis….” So they make $40-50 on a RTC give you $15 back for credit and try to resell it again….
<O:p</O:p
DNA is by far not the only LFS who does crap like this but this just kinda went through my head…
<O:p</O:p
Once again I am going to say it fish like RTC, Pacus and others who get big enough that 300g is not big enough should not be for sale at LFS….PERIOD.
<O:p</O:p
That pacu was there 1-2 weeks ago when I was there....

DNA takes in fish that outgrow tanks, such as Pacus and RTCs. It's part of a program they are signed up with and I can't recall the name of it at this time. Basically, they try to rehome them but if they are not successful, they are to humanely dispose of it. Sad, but it's part of the hobby. As long as those fish are sold, this program will be in place.

BTW, I was there yesterday as they were closing and did not see the Pacu. I did see the sale sign you mention. A 9-10" pacu is actually small. I rehomed mine when she got to be 14-16 inches.

[TDsapp]

BTW, I was there yesterday as they were closing and did not see the Pacu. I did see the sale sign you mention. A 9-10" pacu is actually small. I rehomed mine when she got to be 14-16 inches.

Well, it was big for the tank it was in... :) Even I knew it needed to be in a much bigger tank. I have a lead on a 100 gallon tank that I am thinking about. But I think the wife would not allow me to set up a tank for just one or two fish.

Anyway, I think the next tank is going to be a Tangy tank since I really love the looks of the Altolamprologus Calvus.

The tank after that one will be the plywood tank and it will be salt water. I think I have the perfect wall for it. My wife might not think it's the perfect wall though.... :hehe: At least she has two types of fish that she wants that are saltwater so I should be good to go on that tank. My biggest problem is every time I start thinking about the tank it gets bigger and bigger.



Tim

TDsapp added 1 Minutes and 37 Seconds later...


I know a lot of LFS who refuse to sell fish like RTC and Pacus…. If more LFS would actually take more efforts like that there would be no need for DNA to clean up their own mess…. <o></o>


So... What is an RTC?


Tim

[Phonetic Diabetic]

I feel bad for the big Frontosa I see in there every time I go....he's pretty hefty as well, and in a small tank.

[biggin]

Red Tail Catfish....

do a search on You Tube and see everyone proud of their 2' long fish who eats everything.....wait till it gets 36".....

In the wild they push 48" and eat everything that fits in their mouth...



TDsapp added 1 Minutes and 37 Seconds later...




So... What is an RTC?


Tim

[OOwl]

Now seems a good time to mention the Responsible Fishkeepers Initiative (RFI): http://www.fishchannel.com/rfi.aspx. LFSs (and individuals) can join and pledge not to stock or sell these fish and educate their customers on why they don't make good average aquarium candidates. They can take them in and adopt them out to good homes or humanely destroy them but I do not think they are allowed to SELL them, which is why I don't know if DNA isn't a member or doesn't understand the rules. Maybe they just do their own thing. . .

[tsunderl]

So they are in a program to deal with fish that get too big for the tanks…. But they sell the same fish when they are small….and cute….and are going to eat all of someone’s neons, mollies and tetras….

Unfortunately, they are in business to make money. Just like all the other LFSs. Supply and demand drives sales. Too bad that myth about a fish only growing as big as the container it's in won't die.

<O:p</O:p
I know a lot of LFS who refuse to sell fish like RTC and Pacus…. If more LFS would actually take more efforts like that there would be no need for DNA to clean up their own mess….

I've gone to four different LFSs in the last week and all had pacus of various sizes and two had RTCs. I with they wouldn't sell them, period!

<O:p</O:p
My first thought was that’s cool that they take the fish then I thought “Wait, they keep RTC and Pacus for sale on a regular basis….” So they make $40-50 on a RTC give you $15 back for credit and try to resell it again….

If they put a free sign on them, every uneducated person would take them because they are free. Ask them and they will likely give the fish to you. The price is a deterrant and no, they aren't going to refuse to take money for them either.

I aquired the pacu I had that way. LFS... Free fish.... Except he told me it would grow another 2-4" max. Few months later, I was re-homing her. :(

<O:p</O:p
DNA is by far not the only LFS who does crap like this but this just kinda went through my head…

Absolutely not. I've witnessed a store selling two oscars and a pleco, all around the one foot range, knowing the buyers were putting them in a 55g!!!! When I spoke up, I was told "the employees don't deter sales. If that's what people want, that's what they are going to get. The store is in business to make money." :eek:

<O:p</O:p
Once again I am going to say it fish like RTC, Pacus and others who get big enough that 300g is not big enough should not be for sale at LFS….PERIOD.

Agreed!

<O:p</O:p
That pacu was there 1-2 weeks ago when I was there....

I recall seeing it too, but I didn't see it when I was there yesterday.

I checked out the link for the Responsible Fishkeepers Initiative and it would be nice if there were a way to search what LFSs participated.

[biggin]

My only thing is that if you want to go the "high road" and say you are in a program of rescuing fish that get too big.....
<O:p</O:p

Don't make them available....period. I know LFS who have lost sales because they will not bring them in….and they are fine with that. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

LFS are here to make a living and I have no problem with that. Lots of people are but I also think you have to do it responsibly. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

There is a market out there for them....fine order 1 charge $300 for it.... make the person want it and others to not want it. <O:p</O:p
<O:p
I do not see this as being hard.... and I do not give brownie points for the drug dealer who puts the person in rehab and gives them the fix for while they are in rehab. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

That's just me.... <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

[kewlkatdady]

i personally don't give a shit...but instead of "humainly destroying" the fish...why would someone just fry that big boy up and feed the hungry...

[EAST_TX_RN]

i personally don't give a shit...but instead of "humainly destroying" the fish...why would someone just fry that big boy up and feed the hungry...

That was my way of thinking, but I was afraid I might offend someone! I agree with the Blake, LFS's shouldn't sell fish that they know will grow too big for most aquariums and will probably end up in some lake or brought in for store credit.

[kewlkatdady]

That was my way of thinking, but I was afraid I might offend someone!

F'em....:hehe:

seriously...instead of just throught the fish in the trash...gring them up and make fish food...something...call them the fish recyclers.

[tsunderl]

There's a You-Tube video of someone doing that. I couldn't. :(

tsunderl added 4 Minutes and 6 Seconds later...

F'em....:hehe:

seriously...instead of just throught the fish in the trash...gring them up and make fish food...something...call them the fish recyclers.

True... Besides, they are too big too flush. :o

[EAST_TX_RN]

F'em....:hehe:

seriously...instead of just throught the fish in the trash...gring them up and make fish food...something...call them the fish recyclers.

I had an old OB male die on me, so I threw him to the pigs. If I could catch these Orange Cheeks, I would do the same with them, but I would have to drain my 135 too low to catch the little b*stards! I love fish, but I am real about shit.

[zoohouse]

Ok fish nazis Call me texan but I don't want anyone to be able to keep my fish hobby in check. If i want to buy a fish that can grow to 3 or 4 feet then that is my choice. The problem isn't the availability but the lack of knowledge of the high school drop outs that will work for min. wage at the lfs. Any moron knows that it only takes a quick trip to google to find out all you need to know about almost any fish. I personally dont generally buy any fish that stay under a foot. I like my big fish and will supply them to anyone with the abilities to keep them. My most recent rescue was a 4.5 green moray eel. I will keep him till he dies even if it means he gets 1000gal to himself. Go Big or Go Home. But I also think Pacu need to be more money when they are small and less when they are large atleast according supply and demand. Bottom line if it got to big I'll take it in(just nomore pacu).

[mrsadler]

:hehe: i spit the milk from the ceral all on the monitor loli personally don't give a shit...but instead of "humainly destroying" the fish...why would someone just fry that big boy up and feed the hungry...

[cichlid-dave]

I knew one LFS that said they had a good receipe for PACU!!!

[iron]

I made the mistake many consumers have. I bought fish that I couldnt house. I learned from my mistakes and now I have more than enough for my fish.
When I went to the pet store to buy a fish, regardless where it is, no one stood up and told me that my oscars could surpass 14 inches. In fact at Petsmart, the info panel says they grow to 10 inches. Now they sell oscars like crazy. They also sell plecos like crazy, plecos get huge. I was in there the other day and told the associate, I wish you guys would quit selling those fish. They get huge and people just are not prepared to buy monsters. He knew and agreed, but supply was in demand and the store cared more about the demand than the fish.
Walmart is a total nightmare. I never seen such unhealthy fish in all my life. Fish covered in fungus and ich, lay dying and floating throughout the tanks. Horrible starvation in a 10 gallon 40 oscar tank. I seen one poor fish that was literally absorbing his own muscles to stay alive. This is pathetic. I hate how walmart is on this.
Petsmart has a huge filtration system, I was given a tour of it, and I was impressed. I still saw 1 oscar covered in fungus. They have 2 sizes on the oscars, no matter what, you will get to the big size oscars, just give it a couple weeks.
What makes me mad about all this is the fungus is easily treated by grabbing a bottle of meds not more than a few steps away and start treating the ill. Walmart, has the meds too and wont reach accross the aisle literally and treat a fish. This is like a write off on losses and not worth the effort in their eyes. Frankly I am relieved walmart is getting out of the fish business. They have no business being in it in the first place.
Whenever you buy a fish from walmart, you literally save its life. Be prepared to deal with illness. I have bought 4 from them and 1 gave ich to everyone.
Several weeks ago I saw nothing wrong with it, Im reformed. I am proud of the places that dont sell the monsters to just anyone.

[Dr. Awkward]

Frankly I am relieved walmart is getting out of the fish business. They have no business being in it in the first place.
Whenever you buy a fish from walmart, you literally save its life. Be prepared to deal with illness. I have bought 4 from them and 1 gave ich to everyone.


Walmart isn't getting out of the fish business. They're beefing up their displays and including fish sections in all their new stores because sick fish are profitable. And you don't save any fish by buying from Walmart. You create a demand so they supply more fish. If no one bought from them they stop selling. You are contributing to the problem and approving of their business model by giving them your money.

Pacus are cheap and readily available because they're grown as a food supply - for humans. If anyone has a giant pacu they want to rehome bring it to my home and I'll throw it on the grill. They're supposed to be really tasty. Heck, I'll bet an oscar would taste okay if I put enough corn meal and ketchup on it.

[tsunderl]

The Wal-Marts in my area no longer carry fish. Their "pet" section is like you would see in Kroger.
Posted via Mobile Device

[biggin]

:hehe::hehe::hehe:

x 2

Walmart isn't getting out of the fish business. They're beefing up their displays and including fish sections in all their new stores because sick fish are profitable. And you don't save any fish by buying from Walmart. You create a demand so they supply more fish. If no one bought from them they stop selling. You are contributing to the problem and approving of their business model by giving them your money.

Pacus are cheap and readily available because they're grown as a food supply - for humans. If anyone has a giant pacu they want to rehome bring it to my home and I'll throw it on the grill. They're supposed to be really tasty. Heck, I'll bet an oscar would taste okay if I put enough corn meal and ketchup on it.

[iron]

The ones here are all saying their fish dept is going away. So, perhaps your walmart will be selling them, these arent. No, I would not buy a fish from walmart in the future. They are totally trash. You have to pump meds into a new fish? No thank you.

[Plano_Jeff]

I don't think you can always blame uneducated LFS employees for people buying fish they can't keep.

I was in DNA last weekend and a guy came in and asked "what's the biggest fish you have" in the fresh water section. The clearly uneducated salesman, not a kid, took him over to the oscar tank and quickly helped him pick out a giant oscar. He never asked what size tank he had, if he knew anything about raising an oscar, etc. Clearly he didn't know anything about it because he didn't even know the name of the fish. The salesman went on to explain that the schools in The Colony were reworking their tanks and brought the big oscar into the store.

So, definitely unethical, but at the same time the store simply sold him what he wanted - "the biggest fish you have".

I agree re: pacus and rtc - I don't like any more regulation than anyone else, but the unfortunate reality is that these two fish create more bad press for our hobby than most any other except maybe snakeheads. That bad press is what's driving the cause behind proposed legislation that could really cripple the availability of many harmless plants and fish that we all love. I would have no problem seeing these two fish go on the same list as pirhannas. I come from Ohio where pirhannas are legal, and I'm sure if they were banned there would be outrage. In Texas, you just don't hear much complaining because they've been illegal. I think the same thing would happen with pacus - put restrictions on ownership and after the inital outrage dies down then my guess is no one will mind much.

I think you should be able to own all of those fish, but perhaps require some kind of certification or licensing to own them like there is for many other types of animals, guns, motor vehicles, etc. Not registration, mind you, just simple proof that you are educated on the needs of the particular species and willing to be a responsible owner.

That being said - what about freshwater rays? Certainly they are absolutely cool, but from what I've read they need a minimum of 300 gallons. They've got a handful at DNA with no comments regarding tank size, and even the Fish Gallery has one in a tank that's way too small for it. I know all stores keep fish in tanks that are too small so maybe I'm being to harsh with my judgement.

Does anybody here have freshwater rays? I'm curious because they are so cool, though I don't anticipate having a big enough tank for a long time.

[biggin]

DNA has freshwater rays?

The ray at the fish gallery is a Atlantic Stingray and it is a pretty far stretch to call it a "freshwater" ray. I can assure you that if you talk with Tom or Chris they will educate you on the fish. But in the end like I have said MANY times before....it is not the LFS job to tell you what you can or can not buy. It is your money, your tank and if you buy it, then it is your fish making it your responsibility. Period.

At 300 gallons you would still be doing massive bi-weekly water changes.

most true freshwater sting rays are illegal in Texas just like the piranhas. So if anyone has one they will not be talking about it.

They are extremely cool but most do require a huge tank. Not 100% because of gallons but due to the size the fish grows. On the small side you are looking at something 14-18" around and a bony tail about 2-3'....that is a big fish and it is the small versions.

[Dr. Awkward]

Jeff, if I were you I would be careful about going on a public forum and claiming a local fish store is selling illegal fish. You could be setting yourself and the forum up for a libel suit.

[Plano_Jeff]

Jeff, if I were you I would be careful about going on a public forum and claiming a local fish store is selling illegal fish. You could be setting yourself and the forum up for a libel suit.

Wow, I didn't even realize freshwater rays were illegal in Texas.

I appreciate the advice, but I certainly wasn't accusing anyone of anything, legal or illegal. I was curious as I've recently seen them listed for sale online and read a couple of articles, none of which made any indication regarding legality in Texas or elsewhere. Then I went to two fish stores last weekend and saw rays in both and obviously made the mistaken assumption that they were freshwater.


A libel suit over that post would be foolhardy as it wasn't accusatory in any way, not that there aren't plenty of foolhardy lawyers out there. Lest anyone be upset, allow me to clarify for the potentially litigious:

I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF ANY STORE OR INDIVIDUAL IN TEXAS SELLING OR POSSESSING ANY SPECIES OF FISH OR ANIMAL THAT IS NOT IN 100% ACCORDANCE WITH STATE LAW. MY COMMENTS ARE ALWAYS MY OWN AND NOT A REFLECTION OF THE FORUM OWNERS OR MODERATORS.

Obviously the rays I saw must have been in saltwater and I didn't realize it because I had just been reading about freshwater rays and they weren't obviously delineated between the fresh or salt water groups of fish in the store. I'm sure all of our local stores follow all relevant laws.

[biggin]

While I am happy that Dr. Awkward is looking out for Jeff and the site I think he is right. Now if he were trying to obtain a freshwater stingray after someone said they were illegal, or something like that it would be a little different.

Jeff, I have not seen any at DNA but would have been curious to have.

It is not uncommon for a LFS to get a fish that either they did not know was an illegal fish or they thought they could sneak one by.

But Stingrays are one that TPW will get you on just about every time....

The rays at Fish Gallery are advertised at "fresh water" but if you look at any information on them you will find that it is barely practical to keep them in freshwater. If you want some first hand knowledge talk with Stan.