Thinking about saying an early good by to the planted world.

[sulla]

Well the moss low tech tank is crashing with loads of hair, staghorn and other algae. And the plants even including the duckweed have started going south after looking good the first month or so. So since I do not have the money at the moment to do C02, high light, ferts etc I think its going to all have to come out.

But I might try and salvage a little and throw in my 10g tank were I could play with DIY C02 etc and the costs would all be much lower.

[AndrewH]

I'd highly recommend setting up a 10 gallon to transfer all the plants.

When I was having trouble with my plants I lowered the water level to about 1" to 1-1/2" above the substrate (enough to cover the plants and to keep them wet). If you have to have fish in the tank, you might need a little more water, but the idea is to allow a little extra lighting to get to the plants (the light doesn't have to travel through so much water). It also forces the plants to grow out instead of up (they'll also grow more, thicker roots).

Also, get a multiple on/off timer (I have this (http://www.gas-grills.org/images/pictures/intermatic-standard-lamp-&-appliance-timer-tn111c.jpg) one, but there are several available), which allows you to turn the lights on and off more than once throughout the day. Set the first photo period for 4 hours, then have a 2 hour dark time, then on for another 4 hours. This should help for combating the algae. It allows the plants plenty of time for photosynthesis, but not the algae. This method is a bit slower than a complete black out, but it doesn't sacrifice the plants to get rid of the algae. I would also prune back some of the more heavily algae covered leaves before the move. Keep this schedule until you notice the algae slowing down or even retreating, and all the while you're not trimming the plants even if they start overgrowing the tank (it might look a little unsightly, but you're wanting the plants to get as healthy and nitrogen hungry as possible to starve off the algae - more leave = more food needed and less available for the algae). I believe it took my tank about 2 months to clear up using this method, but mine was a full on algae bloom and not just algae growing on the surfaces. Once you have the algae in check I'd recommend starting with an 8 hour lighting period, then slowly increasing that up to 12 hours as long as the algae doesn't come back.

If you go with a 10 gallon, I'd recommend getting a two lamp incandescent hood (~$20) and to use incandescent lamps within it. I believe they're limited to duel 25 watt lamps (due to heat build up), so don't exceed that recommendation. I'd also have two cork screw spiral fluorescent bulbs ready to go once the algae is under control. Wal-Mart is hit or miss, but I've seen them at Lowes/Home Depot but you're wanting to find 5000 K or higher if possible. If the packages doesn't give the K rating, as in the package only says "Soft White" then it is more than likely 3000-3700 K to match an incandescent.

I would encourage you not to completely give up on plants.

HTH

[T-Angel]

Have you checked your Nitrate level sometimes high nitrates can contribute to algae blooms...

[EAST_TX_RN]

Patrick, I hate to hear that. I would try Andrew's recommendations. Let us know how it goes.

[OOwl]

Andrew, those were some really good tips. I've never heard of the staggered lighting schedule but I like the sounds of that! I may have to try that myself.

I can't remember who recommended this but someone said (or I read) to add Flourish Excel in a double dose to combat algae blooms. I had some hair algae trying to grow in my 30-gallon tank, which is my most heavily stocked, heavily fed, brightly lit tank. I did and the hair algae just melted away in a few days and remains gone. The higher plants just thrived under the double doses of Excel too. Might be too cost prohibitive to do on a large tank but doing it to the 30 was cheap and easy. I keep some on hand in case I need to do it again.

[IC Casey]

I'm personally a big fan of either double dosing or double frequency Excel to deal with algae, but your mileage may vary. I know one thing is that my 10g at home took about 7 months to really start establishing the plants. I killed unkillable plants in that thing. I don't recommend giving up.

Follow Andrew's instructions. He helped me a lot.

[AndrewH]

Andrew, those were some really good tips. I've never heard of the staggered lighting schedule but I like the sounds of that! I may have to try that myself.

I can't remember who recommended this but someone said (or I read) to add Flourish Excel in a double dose to combat algae blooms. I had some hair algae trying to grow in my 30-gallon tank, which is my most heavily stocked, heavily fed, brightly lit tank. I did and the hair algae just melted away in a few days and remains gone. The higher plants just thrived under the double doses of Excel too. Might be too cost prohibitive to do on a large tank but doing it to the 30 was cheap and easy. I keep some on hand in case I need to do it again.

:D yeah there was a discussion about it on plantedtank.net a while back (2 years ago I think, '07 - if you're wanting to look it up), but the algae takes about 4 hours before it starts it's "photosynthesis" process (though I think it's called something else within the algae and fungi families). If you only give the algae just shy of enough light it'll slowly kill it (much faster if you black out the tank), while the plants typically start photosynthesis when the lights come on so they're not hurt by the lighting schedule.

Generally speaking, algae is cause by extra food and extra lighting. Reduce one or both and the algae can't survive. Cutting back on the lighting, plus the plants growing in/requiring more food does both of these.

I can't remember who recommended this but someone said (or I read) to add Flourish Excel in a double dose to combat algae blooms. I had some hair algae trying to grow in my 30-gallon tank, which is my most heavily stocked, heavily fed, brightly lit tank. I did and the hair algae just melted away in a few days and remains gone. The higher plants just thrived under the double doses of Excel too. Might be too cost prohibitive to do on a large tank but doing it to the 30 was cheap and easy. I keep some on hand in case I need to do it again.
I'm personally a big fan of either double dosing or double frequency Excel to deal with algae, but your mileage may vary. I know one thing is that my 10g at home took about 7 months to really start establishing the plants. I killed unkillable plants in that thing. I don't recommend giving up.

Follow Andrew's instructions. He helped me a lot.

Ahh, never heard the double fert dosing. I might have to setup a 10 gallon just so I can test this one out :hehe:

[IC Casey]

Ahh, never heard the double fert dosing. I might have to setup a 10 gallon just so I can test this one out :hehe:

It's perfect for something like a 10g, bc IMO it's a better usage of time/space/equipment/money than CO2. I use a slight overdose + increased regularity in the 29T at work and it REALLY helped the plants out. The additional benefit being that (according to the good people at Seachem, I'm no chemist) it helps keep iron in the ferrous state. My swords are completely different plants with it. Before they were okay, but they would regularly thin and yellow even as they were putting on new growth. NOW, it's healthy green stuff.

The only stuff I use is Flourish/Excel... with sometimes some blackwater extract to the 10g at home to keep my ridonculous tap pH from getting outta control.

[ElijahTurtle]

Andrew is correct. The multiple on off periods is called a Siesta. The concept came from South American planted tank keepers that had outdoor tanks. Originally they would cover their tanks for temp control, but they figured out that their algae issues kind of went away after they started it. As it turns out most alga forms take up to 4 hours to begin phototsynthesis & the higher order plants begin the process almost immediately. But shutting it down at the 4 hour mark, it allows them to out compete the algae.
I have been using this method exclusively since I came across it & have had excellent results.
The overdose method on excel works well too, but I wouldn't recommend it as a long term process. It basically does the same thing to the algae that it does to some species of cryptocoryne & some valisnarias too where it wilts them & they literally look like the melted.
With either method, your going to want to clear as much of the algae as you can by hand, since it will start fouling the water pretty quick as it dies, which will compound the problem.

[EAST_TX_RN]

Y'all are like plant gods!

[IC Casey]

Y'all are like plant gods!

As long as it's the kind of gods that are big on trial and error.

[sulla]

Thanks for all the great advice. Now I just have to decide what to do. I might try the timer on the big tank before I move it all to the smaller tank. And maybe some excel short term on the big tank. Not sure yet hmmmm

[EAST_TX_RN]

Patrick, not to hijack your thread but I have RJ fry growing in that big space behind the concrete background! Woo-hoo!

[Brackish_Zygote]

Before you completely say goodbye, I want to suggest trying the El Natural setup.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/el-natural/

[Dr. Awkward]

I have the same algae problems with my low tech tank. I also recommend shortening the photo period. It has helped for me but you still have to manually remove as much of the filamentous algae as possible. Once staghorn is on the plants it's not going anywhere.

Have you ever heard of using a willow branch to suck out excess nutrients? I've been reading up on it and am getting ready to try it - as soon as I find a willow tree.

[sulla]

EAST_TX_RN - That back part is a good place for fry:)



Brackish_Zygote - If I do it will be with the 10g only.


Dr. Awkward - Well I have plenty of those around our large pond if it works:) I will read up on it some.

sulla added 6 Minutes and 53 Seconds later...

By the way I am getting close to deciding to try flourish excel to give the plants a boost and combat algae.

[sulla]

Well tonight I took all the plants out of my 60g tank and did about a 75% water change and cleaned as best I could. I will work on getting it really clean over a few days before I redo it.

I also saved the best of the moss the christmas, flame etc and some of the other plants and put them in my 10g tank. This tank will get either excel or DIY co2. I will decide for sure in the morning.

[AndrewH]

I have the same algae problems with my low tech tank. I also recommend shortening the photo period. It has helped for me but you still have to manually remove as much of the filamentous algae as possible. Once staghorn is on the plants it's not going anywhere.

Have you ever heard of using a willow branch to suck out excess nutrients? I've been reading up on it and am getting ready to try it - as soon as I find a willow tree.

Almost any terrestrial plan will use up excess nitrates (as in faster than full on aquarium plants).

I've seen/hear/read were several folks use mangrove trees to use up extra nitrogen. From my understanding, mangroves have the highest CO2 to O2 rate of any plant (some of the environmental scientists believe part of our "global warming" problems seem to mirror the reduction in Mangrove forests round the world), which makes them natural nitrogen hogs plus they work in fresh and salt water setups ;).

But do at least a little research before tossing in just any terrestrial plant as some common household plants are toxic.