Filter combinations

[Jim2982]

OK, I think I'm gonna buy that 180 from Nazrac, and I have some questions about filtering it. I had 2 Penguin Bio-Wheel 200's on my 90 and added another Bio-Wheel 350 to that a couple of weeks ago. They're all three running right now. My questions for the 180 are as follows:

1. My filters combined are rated at filtering 175 gallons total. I'm also planning to add a second Bio-Wheel 350 to "overfilter" the cichlids. So, by the time I put substrate and decorations in, would that be enough filtration?

2. If I put an undergravel filter on the bottom and use the bio-wheels, does that eliminate the need for gravel cleaning? Would water changes be all that is needed in that type of setup?

3. Once I have enough filtration one way or the other, how should I transfer the fish? Is filling it halfway with treated water, filling the rest with the water from my 90 gallon, and adding the filters all that's necessary before moving the fish over? I know the undergravel filter takes time to develop, but the bio-wheels already have good bacterial colonies so I don't have to let it cycle, right?

I'm not in any hurry, and I want to make sure I do everything right. I'm open to any suggestions, ideas, or opinions you guys might have. Thanks in advance as I'm sure I'll get plenty of responses! ;) Now...let me have it!

[rolloffhill]

1. Not likely, look into a larger canister (xp4) to go along with your biowheels, or make a sump. Sumps can be made very cheap and are very painless to clean and maintain.

2. You should never assume that you can't vacuum. UGJ help but still need to vacuum. I personally wouldn't use a UGF because it leaves a place to trap alot of waste.

3. The water will help but not that much. The biowheels will help for sure, well seasoned filter media is a great way to help kick them off. Gravel from your old tank will help also.

I have a sump in my tank now and could possibly throw some sponges in there to start seasoning them if ya want.

[Jim2982]

How exactly does a sump work and what all does it consist of? I've never used anything other than undergravel filters and the bio-wheels, except for the Marineland 350 canister filter, but it was a pain in the butt. Can I just use the bio-wheels and vacuum the gravel like I've been doing in the 90, or is a sump or canister a necessary additive?

[kewlkatdady]

not neccassary, but I think on bigger tanks, you should have a sump or a canister to house the larger bio colonies that can handle a tank (that size) full of fish...

[AndrewH]

I agree. You're looking at filtering 180 gallons of water and the HOB filters just really aren't design for that much volumn (if you look at their design, the intake is directly above the exhaust). IMHO, not the best design for a deeper tank (like 24"+).

A canister would be a nice choise IMHO for a planted tank as it'll help keep the CO2 disolved, but if you're going cichlids or non-planted I'd highly recommend a sump (technically they're called a wet/dry filter if they hold the filter media, as well as, have a sump ;)).

http://i15.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/78/1e/9d_1_b.JPG
125 gallon wet/dry filter (http://item.express.ebay.com/Home-Garden___WET-DRY-FILTER-200-GALLON-REEF-TANK-AQUARIUM_W0QQitemZ120170938728QQihZ002QQddnZHomeQ2 0Q26Q20GardenQQddiZ984QQcmdZExpressItem)

And you'd also need a pump.
I'd recommend this Mag 9.5 (http://item.express.ebay.com/Home-Garden___Danner-Mag-Drive-Supreme-9-5-950-GPH-Pump_W0QQitemZ7746923443QQihZ004QQddnZHomeQ20Q26Q2 0GardenQQddiZ984QQcmdZExpressItem)

or this canister (XP4)
XP4 Canister (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752400&cp=2767036.2769128&fbx=0&fbn=Brand%7CRena&f=Taxonomy%2FPET%2F2769128&f=PAD%2FBrand%2FRena&fbc=1&parentPage=family&keepsr=1)

[rolloffhill]

"One gallon of Coralife aquarium Bio-Balls, (approximately 300 balls) has a surface area of approximately 21.5 sq. ft. This increased surface area supports between 45 and 60 gallons of marine life. Available in a 1-gallon box and a beautiful reusable 5-gallon bucket

Wet/dry filters consist of:

1)Sump is usually a small aquarium or container that drips water over 2) filter floss to catch large waste 3) then trickles over bio-balls that house your bio colonies 4) water is then pumped back into the tank from a submersible pump.

Sumps are great because you can house your heaters, thermometers and other misc. equipment out of view of the main tank.

I have pics of mine and was going to do a write up. I'll get on that and link you to it...:)

[AndrewH]

And at 180 gallons, I'd recommend a Fluidized Bed Filter.

Fluidized Bed Filter (http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_fbf.php)

[rolloffhill]

Bonus of DIY W/D is they are way cheaper to build then buying one.

[AndrewH]

Oh yes, I'd recommend building one if you got the skills.

Skipp, did you build your sump?

[rolloffhill]

Yes I did..:D

http://www.dfwfishbox.com/wetdry.php

[AndrewH]

That's right. I completely forgot you built that system.

What size aquarium is that system sitting in? I guess a blue tote or what not would work.

What's the price for the system?

What pump did you go with?

[Goathead]

I agree with Andrew, A fluidized bed filter is cheap, requires basically no maintenance, and supports a huge bio load. (All of the other options stated will work also)

[Jim2982]

Is there media that needs to be changed in a sump, just like in a canister? And is the fluidized bed filter all I'd need if I went that route, or should I combine that with the bio-wheels?

[rolloffhill]

That's right. I completely forgot you built that system.

What size aquarium is that system sitting in? I guess a blue tote or what not would work.

What's the price for the system?

What pump did you go with?

Its a 30 gallon, a tote would work but I prefer a tank.

I don't have much in it, the tank was given to me, the towers were probably $10 each, 5 gallons bio-balls $25, filter floss $5. All the other ingredients I had except the pump and tubing.

I went with a mag 9.5 best bang for the buck there. Cheapest price is petsolutions on ebay.

[rolloffhill]

Is there media that needs to be changed in a sump, just like in a canister? And is the fluidized bed filter all I'd need if I went that route, or should I combine that with the bio-wheels?

Just the filter floss, you can reuse that but replace it when it starts tearing apart. Maybe spend $5-10 every 6 months if that.

[Jim2982]

So nothing in the sump ever needs to be cleaned (cuz that would kill the bacterial colony anyway) or replaced, except for the floss every few months? Is there really that little maintenance?

[rolloffhill]

Only thing I do on my regular maintance is pull out the floss and wash it out to get the solids out. I also vac out the bottom to get as much of the solids that are on the bottom of that tank. So basically drain it with each WC but that is what I do, not sure what others do.

[Jim2982]

So I'd do my normal water change and gravel vacuuming in the aquarium, and then wash off the floss and 1) drain the sump completely or 2) just vacuum the bottom of the sump and get the solids there?

[rolloffhill]

Yes..:)

[Goathead]

you would still need the Hang on the back filters to handle your mechanical filtration, but the Fluidized is a cheap route.

[rolloffhill]

I don't have anything else. The W/D does it all. Filter floss is the mechanical, and the balls take the bio load.

Forgot to mention the biggest benefit of all, I do my WC every other week, and with a sump and overflow boxes the water level in the main tank never fluctuates from evaporation. The only water level change is in the sump. The size of your sump will determine how often you really need to add water to it.

[Goathead]

I don't have anything else. The W/D does it all. Filter floss is the mechanical, and the balls take the bio load.

I was talking about the fluidized bed filter, not wet dry's...sorry for the confusion

[AndrewH]

I'd recommend using the FBF on the return line from the sump pump to the tank. <tank overflow, to trickle, to sump, to pump, to FBF, back to tank> or even having a separate pump just for the FBF and running it in addition to the wet/dry.

[rolloffhill]

I was talking about the fluidized bed filter, not wet dry's...sorry for the confusion


10~4...:D

[greeneyed]

Is there anyway to use a sump without having a drilled tank?
I would love to incorporate one into both my tanks, but neither are drilled:mad:.

[AndrewH]

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage.aspx?PageAlias=overflow_boxes_cpr
(here's some for sale, but e-Bay has 'em pretty cheap)

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/overflow.htm
(here's an explanation of how it works, etc.)

Here are some pictures of mine.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Andrew_H/OverflowBox1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Andrew_H/fishy/overflow.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Andrew_H/fishy/90_gal_b.jpg

[AndrewH]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Siphon-Aquarium-Overflow-Box-600g-w-Lift-Pump_W0QQitemZ160172509339QQihZ006QQcategoryZ46310 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
(pretty nice one for pretty cheap)

http://i21.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/bf/1c/0b0d_1.JPG

Oh and most of the time when you purchase a wet/dry (a.k.a. sump) it'll have one (reference pic in post #5 above).

[sap]

fluval FX5 would be nice for a tank that size.

[greeneyed]

Thanks for the info.
I will read up on it.
I would lean more toward the diy version on a sump like rolloffhill (http://www.dfwfishbox.com/member.php?u=1)'s.
I pretty much DIY everything I can.
Heck I even have a DIY lcd projector.

In your ebay link it says:

FREE : 1x 1"outlet bulkhead fitting and strainer.
FREE: 1x 100gph Venturi Lift Pump.


Both of my aquariums are 55g, so if I used a 20-30 sump, the "free" pump would not turn the water over twice per hour. Would I be better off buying a separate pump? If so what size? What is a good turnover rate?

Thanks

[poel_19]

DIY LCD??? this I gotta see!!

[greeneyed]

http://www.lumenlab.com
Search through their forums...
The quality is superior.
The brightness isn't quite the same, but in a light controlled room, doesn't matter.
The best this is commercial has a bulb that lasts 500-1000 hours and are $300.
Where as mine has a bulb that will last 10000 hours and costs $30 to replace.

[AndrewH]

Thanks for the info.
I will read up on it.
I would lean more toward the diy version on a sump like rolloffhill (http://www.dfwfishbox.com/member.php?u=1)'s.
I pretty much DIY everything I can.
Heck I even have a DIY lcd projector.

In your ebay link it says:



Both of my aquariums are 55g, so if I used a 20-30 sump, the "free" pump would not turn the water over twice per hour. Would I be better off buying a separate pump? If so what size? What is a good turnover rate?

Thanks

When you're talking a wet/dry (a.k.a. sump) filter 4-5 times per hour turnover rate is a good target. Plus or minus is fine too, but if you're actually holding 20-30 gallons of water for a 55 I would imagine you could get by with 2-3 without any problems. The wet/dry I have that's built for a 125 gallon aquarium only holds like 10 gallon (maybe less).

I'd definitely recommend having a backup pump on hand if possible as you never know when one will give up and that completely stops your enitre filtration system ;).