i bought another tank

[FishDaddy]

I may have to sleep in one of these soon if I keep getting them :D
anyway, found a deal on craigslist for an 85 gal with stand and hood for 300. Turned out to be oceanic, really nice with a 10k bulb :D. Of course I talked them down to 200, cause I'm cheap like that....now I've got to go buy one of the xp4's in flower mound....! I'll post pics after I get it cleaned up and tested.
Question: has anybody successfully used undergravel filtration with cichlids? My red devils would've made it impossible, but so far the green terror or the convicts don't dig. the tank came with it, and I'm trying to decide if I'll use it.

I'll be getting rid of the 55, cause momma said I can't have three tanks. Posting that soon! :(

[AndrewH]

Congrats on the new tank!!! Oh the possibilities!!!

Any plans for it yet (seem like it's going to be a Terror and Convict tank)?

I think the general consensus is: UGFs are way outdated. There are so many other, less maintenance, options out there that most would recommend against UGF unless you're willing to keep on top of it.

[masroberts9]

x2, thats what ive heard. ive heard that ugf require occasional cleaning which would require you moving or removing the substrate to get it out. and if you plant the tank then the roots get stuck in the opening....

[AndrewH]

Yeah, think about it this way: every once in a while you need to clean the filter to make it more efficient (or rather to restore it's efficiency), so doing this with an UGF would require you to take everything out of the way to get to the UGF then to put it all back again. HOBs, Canisters, and Wet/Drys are all external so much easier to get to for cleaning.

Is the tank drilled (a.k.a. RR)?

[FishDaddy]

Yeah, think about it this way: every once in a while you need to clean the filter to make it more efficient (or rather to restore it's efficiency), so doing this with an UGF would require you to take everything out of the way to get to the UGF then to put it all back again. HOBs, Canisters, and Wet/Drys are all external so much easier to get to for cleaning.

Is the tank drilled (a.k.a. RR)?


good to know, I will probably dump it. good food for thought, I didn't think about having to remove everything to clean it....eeeeeeeee!
The tank isn't drilled, I almost bought one that was so I could use my home made sump but it wasn't meant to be :(. The guy kept changing the price.

[AndrewH]

You can get an overflow box so you can use a wet/dry. Wet/dry (a.k.a. trickle filters) are some of the best for keeping cichlids due to the massive amounts of aeration that happens plus the fact that most cichlid tanks are kept overstocked to reduce the aggression.

http://www.championlighting.com/pics/filterpics/ADHI_Overflow.JPG

[lrw46]

I have to agree that there uses for HOB filters, and chiclids are one of the reasons. They all dig in the gravel.( Except angles and discus. ) Rooted plants are another.
I have used UGF for many years, and perfer them over the more costly HOB filters. Yes, I have to move the arrangement of rocks, etc. About once a year or so. But I would do that anyway.
About once every 4-6 months, or so, I use a gravel washer and remove about 1/2 the water, thus cleaning the gravel without destroying the bacteria bed. Or another way is to stir up the gravel with my hand and then use my magnum to remove all the crap in the water.
Yes this is "old school", but has proven effective over the years.
The type of filtration you use boils down to how much you over feed, and what kind of fish you are going to have. If you have chiclids that dig in the gravel to build a nest, the babies will be sucked in the UGF.
I have had rooted plants with UGF, and yes, it was a mess to get the roots out of UGF when I went to break the tank down completely to move it. How often are you going to move a tank especialy anything over 55 gals.???? Once a week,once a month, once a year, or less???????

[AndrewH]

Good point. It's not to say an UGF isn't a good way to filter a tank, as they do work quit well. It's just in general they're more of a pain to maintain over other filter types. Plus they are cheap as heck to setup and operate.

I think with plants vs. UGF it's more of a problem with rearranging the plants within the tank and cause significant damage (unintentional of course) to the roots, plus the roots will clog up the UGF making it less effective over time.

[FishDaddy]

moot point now - I just bought an xp4. (brand new for 67.49) :D

Last one, sorry :(, but they did have some xp2 (don't know the price) and one xp1 (for 29.99)

[AndrewH]

If you go back, I'll PP (paypal) you the money for an XP1 & XP2 :D

AWESOME score BTW!!!

[FishDaddy]

If you go back, I'll PP (paypal) you the money for an XP1 & XP2 :D

AWESOME score BTW!!!

Thankee! I'll let you know if I head back. It's around 65 miles round trip for me...i'm just nuts. :D

[kewlkatdady]

I understand that you already got a big canister...congrats...

but as far as the UGF with cichlids...they dig and this will cause an issue with ugf's...

whats the fix you ask...
eggcrate on top of the ugf's so the can only dig down so far... keeps a .25-.5 layer of gravel ontop of the ugf...

ugf's offer HUGE bio colony and can be very efficient filters is used with power heads or LARGE air pumps.

I gravel vac with every water change anyway so there no additional maintence for me...

[rolloffhill]

Egg = Eggcrate?

[Tinyfish]

I have to side with the UGF's. I never take my UGF out. I have taken down the tank when moved and found NO accumulation underneath even after 14 months. I had two powerheads running it and would vacuum the gravel when I did a water change.

When I had cichlids mine did not dig.

[kewlkatdady]

yes...fixed Egg = Eggcrate?

[FishDaddy]

thanks all. it makes me feel better about the one in my community tank :D (it also has a xp2)

[cichlidkeeper]

in my 55 cichlid community im gonna put large 1-2" gravel on the bottom with pea gravel on top. under this is gonna be a ugf. the fish cant pick up the large gravel and it makes a great place for bacteria to grow:D

[greeneyed]

... and for sludge and gunk to build up. I think you would eventually have problems with the rock in there. Especially since you wont be able to clean it.

[AndrewH]

Thankee! I'll let you know if I head back. It's around 65 miles round trip for me...i'm just nuts. :D

:eek: Oh heck! Nevermind... thought you were around the corner.

Got one anyway :tease:, but thanks!