SUBSTRATE?!?

[chebert22]

I generally prefer to use the common, run of the mill aquarium rocks in an earth tone color. But I was wondering what, if any, are my other options? I saw some kind of sand like particles the other day, but wondered if they were adviseable to put into a freshwater.

Keep in mind I am wanting to keep Discus. A few people have advised me to keep Discus in a bare bottom tank? What are the advantages of this other than its easier to clean?

[AndrewH]

Cleaning is the one of the reason to do a bare bottom tank. Easy to see anything on the bottom that needs to be cleaned up.

Biggin (blake) has some really kool stuff for planted aquariums if that's the way you're going to go. $15 per 50# bag and 20% was plenty for his 55 gallon.

[AndrewH]

Oh and gravel or sand are also nice options.

[poel_19]

Discus kept in bare bottomed tanks(bottom is painted on the ouside for soothing purposes) are usually kept like that for breeding purposes...also some substrate can raise or lower the water PH depending on type. Most Discus keepers that keep a bare bottome do so to utilze RO/DI (reverse osmosis/ De-ionized )water. They can have the water buffered to your exact PH needs when trying to breed or keeping your discus in a soft acidic environment.

[chebert22]

So it isn't required or necessary to keep then in a bare bottom unless I am going to breed them, which is the only time they really need an exact pH level.

I've never tried anything other than the everyday run of the mill gravel. I'd like to try something new, but not exhausting to clean.

[poel_19]

i'm not going to lie bare bottom tanks to have a certain look I like especially if done right with the right driftwood centerpiece, but you lose a certain natural feel when substrate is not involved. do you know what type of look your going for in your discus tank??

[chebert22]

Nope.... With my goldfish tank I like the natural earth toned setup. I have a few fake plants, a lavarock, driftwood, and some sandstone, set in medium-tan colored gravel.

I haven't a clue what I would like to go with when I set up this 55g for discus. I dont much care for the bare bottom tanks, but then again, I haven't seen many pictures of display tanks with bare bottoms either. I've mostly only seen pictures of breeding tanks.

[ElijahTurtle]

For planted tank substrates, there is a product called Soilmaster Select. It's sold by Lesco. Look for the Charcoal color. It's pH neutral & is a great planted substrate. It's the same product that the ADA is selling at a fraction of the cost.

As for bare bottom Discus tanks, it not necessary unless your trying to breed them & even then it's arguable. Discus are more adaptable to water parameters than you would think. There I'm kind of a natural tank proponent & all the tanks I've had have been planted. I'm currently keeping wild discus & angelfish(also another mythical No No) together in a planted 55G.
Truth be known, there are very successful discus keepers on both sides of the fence & both methods have their virtues.
Right now I'm running Sand blasting media in my 55G with a layer of Laterite under it.

[chebert22]

I prefer SOMETHING on the bottom, and I would like to try something a little finer than gravel. Maybe sand, or a sand like material...

And in all my readings lately, i've seen websites that range from saying you have to have a specific pH level otherwise they wont survive, to websites that say Discus are quite hardy and can stand anything from 5.5 to 7.8

I'm sure serious fish keeping, is a lot like horsekeeping.... everyone has their own way and opinion, and everyone thinks their way is the say all end all.... I just have to develop my own and take advise from people whom I can associate with...

[ElijahTurtle]

here's a fuzzy pic of my tank. it's missing a bunch of plants. I threw away about 2lbs of java fern when we moved.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q83/elijahtturtle/New55G.jpg

[poel_19]

Discus snobs will say they are a delicate fish, real lifers have experimented and found that they can live in a wide range of PH's. PH only truly matters when trying to conditioning them for breeding, which is also debateable. look into the inert substrates like 3M silicates or a somewhat fine crushed quartz, both come in a range of colors you my want.

[bra8ndy8]

BEAUTIFUL AMON!!!

[biggin]

Maybe jacking with the PH is what makes the discus to hard to keep.....

SMS is good I use it.... I am not sure I would agree it is same stuff that ADA sells but it works just as good.

If you want a natural looking rock that is smaller, Pet-O-Rama sells a small natural looking rock for like $7 for a 25lb bag. If you go with the plant friendly substrate SMS or whatever the one 25lb bag will do you.

[steve]

Rift to Reef has a black sand like substrate I love it. You can get a 100lb back for $40. Its not sand I dont know exaclty what it is but they use it on all of there freshwater tanks. I use it in my 35g i should have used it in my 55g.

[mpoarch]

I have a 46 bowfront with Soilmaster Select used for my Discus. It was a beeeatch to rinse clean..and I disagree that it is pH nuetral. It will drop your pH immediately. Not bad if you are going with S. American fish which are discus, rams, tetras, etc. My pH for Irving water is at about 7.4, after putting in Soilmaster Select, it is around 6.2. YOu can also do a search in regards to this substrate and you will find that dozens of people have commented on how it has lowered their pH. Some were angry because they needed a higher pH, some were happy, like me! Oh And 1 bag is about $16 with tax and it will cover a 75G with like 3 inches of cover so one bag is more than enough for ou. I actually have a half bag I would sell to you for $8!

[biggin]

I have not had a problem with the PH.... just substrate has not dropped my PH.... I have it in 3 tanks, when I add CO2 and driftwood the PH will drop but levels around 6.3-6.5.

[ElijahTurtle]

If you want a natural looking rock that is smaller, Pet-O-Rama sells a small natural looking rock for like $7 for a 25lb bag. If you go with the plant friendly substrate SMS or whatever the one 25lb bag will do you.

LOL That's what is in my tank. It's just a type of sand blasting media. They have it packaged to sell in thier stores. It's alot cheaper than going with Aquarium marketed products.
I just put a layer of laterite under it. FYI laterite is some cloudy stuff, no matter how much you rinse it.

[mpoarch]

I was just told you can go to the BUilder's supply and ask for blasting media #3 and it is about $7 for a 100 pound bag, i will be doing some checking on that!

[lellison]

where can you find the Soilmaster Select? I will be setting up a 55 soon and I would like to have something that live plants would a little better in. My pH out of the tap is already 7.0 though. Would that drop it too much? I'm keeping South American, but wow it dropped mpoarch's a lot

[Catherine]

Wait, wait, wait. Discus are NOT goldfish and have very specific requirements for their health!! Discus should have 50% waterchanges every 3 days (I have always done them every two days for fish under 6" diameter) and that is enough to scare off most people. I have been raising/breeding discus for 5 years now. The reason for keeping a bare bottom tank IS Cleanliness. You can not feed the quantities and frequencies of a meaty diet to have a healthy growing fish AND keep a tank clean with substrate that catches all the uneaten nasties unless you are syphoning after every feeding and are SURE you get it all. Not many people have that much time to devote to tanks. You can put discus into planted tanks with substrates, but I would not do it until the discus has finished growing. The real reason for clean tanks is so that you don't stunt your discus as it is growing up. The Amazon river is flushing perfect water down it 24/7. No uneaten food spoiling in the water column! The first 18 mos are critical for the fish to develop the way their genetics will allow.. but if you have poor water quality, you end up with football shaped, big eyed discus, or worse yet, dead discus. Bare bottom doesn't mean BARE. I plant Swords in pots and glass bowls, and have those sitting in the bottom of the tank. The fish love it, it looks beautiful and it is clear and you can see any food or poops that need syphoning up!
Discus can adapt to different ph for grow out, but they do not adapt to bad water!

[ElijahTurtle]

where can you find the Soilmaster Select? I will be setting up a 55 soon and I would like to have something that live plants would a little better in. My pH out of the tap is already 7.0 though. Would that drop it too much? I'm keeping South American, but wow it dropped mpoarch's a lot

You can find it at Lesco.
Lesco Store Finder (http://www.lesco.com/prodcatalog/storefinder.aspx)

[rolloffhill]

I was just told you can go to the BUilder's supply and ask for blasting media #3 and it is about $7 for a 100 pound bag, i will be doing some checking on that!


That is what I used in my tank and price sounds right too. I picked mine up in denton.

[AndrewH]

where can you find the Soilmaster Select? I will be setting up a 55 soon and I would like to have something that live plants would a little better in. My pH out of the tap is already 7.0 though. Would that drop it too much? I'm keeping South American, but wow it dropped mpoarch's a lot

You can find it at Lesco.
Lesco Store Finder (http://www.lesco.com/prodcatalog/storefinder.aspx)

The only Lesco that has it in stock is over here by me.

$15 for 50#

[lellison]

Can I order online?

[biggin]

Shipping looked like it was going to be a nightmare. I do not remember what it was but it was not very good.

Can I order online?

[lellison]

Yes I am sure it is ridiculous, but so is the gas driving there and back from where I'm at. Freaking 16 mpg car too. I will see if I can a shipping prcie.Thanks!

[ElijahTurtle]

The only Lesco that has it in stock is over here by me.

$15 for 50#

Which one is that?
I need to pick up a bag soon. I wanna redo the 55G while I'm doing all the SW junk too.

[mpoarch]

I Have a bag for sale.. actually a bag and a half..

I will sell it for what I bought it and you can pick it up from me at the sto'

[AndrewH]

Yes I am sure it is ridiculous, but so is the gas driving there and back from where I'm at. Freaking 16 mpg car too. I will see if I can a shipping prcie.Thanks!

I don't have a problem picking it up if you'd like. Maybe you can work out a deal with Skipp to transport it from me to you on his way through?

PM both of us and maybe we can work something out.

Which one is that?
I need to pick up a bag soon. I wanna redo the 55G while I'm doing all the SW junk too.

Which is what? The product (Soilmaster Select) or the store location HWY121 and ... can't remember the cross street at the moment (in Richland Hills).

[mpoarch]

I think it is Trinity.. Anyway.. I am in IRving, have some I got from there.. one bag does a 3 inch layer of a 75G FYI. So I can either have it in Irving if anyone wants mine, or in Arlington at True PErcula..just letting you's guys know..

[ElijahTurtle]

Mary, PM sent on the bag of Soilmaster

[rolloffhill]

Yes I am sure it is ridiculous, but so is the gas driving there and back from where I'm at. Freaking 16 mpg car too. I will see if I can a shipping prcie.Thanks!

I don't have a problem picking it up if you'd like. Maybe you can work out a deal with Skipp to transport it from me to you on his way through?

PM both of us and maybe we can work something out.



Which is what? The product (Soilmaster Select) or the store location HWY121 and ... can't remember the cross street at the moment (in Richland Hills).

Laura are you still interested?