Carnivorous plant in my aquarium

[Aldrovanda]

Thought some of you might be interested in this...

I collect carnivorous plants. I've kept one in my aquarium for about 5 years now, a rare plant related to the venus flytrap called Aldrovanda vesiculosa. It grows as a floating stem plant, one end grows while the other dies (like hornwort). Average length is like 5-10 centimeters. The traps of the plant are located along the stem, in small whorls that look like wheels: the leaves are the spokes with the traps at the end (thus its common name: waterwheel).

The traps are like small clams, and have small teeth at the ends. Small aquatic prey (like shrimp or snail babies) are caught when they wander into the trap (there may be some lure that is unknown). When they brush a trigger hair inside the trap, the trap snaps shut in milliseconds. Slowly the trap seals shut and digests the prey. All much like the venus flytrap. You can read more about it here: http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq5040.html. Since the traps are so tiny, I can't take close-up pics of the them, check out this link also for some close-ups!

Here are some of my pics anyway:

A whole bunch of them:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p219/Jundiai/Nossos%20Aquarios/IMG_2823.jpg

A sorta close-up here of two strands that got caught on a log:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p219/Jundiai/Nossos%20Aquarios/IMG_0443.jpg

How do I grow this plant? I keep it in a 72 gallon planted tank with CO2 injection. I used to fertilize the tank, but don't anyomore. I have a canister filter that delivers a gentle current through a long spray bar: this is important to keep the strands from becoming submerged. Lighting: medium to strong, they receive 4x55 watts from an AH Supply setup.

This plant is notorious among carnivorous plant enthusiasts for being hard to keep. I acquired some one day and just threw it into my tank. Five strands grew to hundreds! I used to really have a ton of this stuff, I would need to give it away just to keep it from choking out the light to half of my tank! I think anyone with skills at keeping medium to high light tanks could grow this stuff. Unfortunately, since the move to Dallas, it has been slow to grow up. I'm screwing around with conditions (more light? more prey? more CO2, ferts?) to get it back where it used to be. When it's there, I'll be sure to share.

Hope you enjoy!

Aldrovanda added 8 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

Oh yeah, one other thing I forgot: propagation. 99.999999% of the time it's through side shoots that grow into new plants. However, under the right conditions, the plant will flower (most believe its induced by high temps, like in the 90s). It will send up a small white flower just above the surface. I've never actually seen the flower, it's short-lived. But I have seen the emerging flower stalks...and the seed pod! One day, I just decided to check and see if it made seed...it did. Each pod makes like 10-20 small black seeds:

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p219/Jundiai/Nossos%20Aquarios/05Aug2007_Aldrovandaseedling_2.1.jpg

See that one in the middle? That one started to sprout. And this is really interesting, the first thing it makes is a root...like all other plants. However this is the only time in its life cycle that it makes a root.

Here is the same seed some time later, when it made its first traps!

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p219/Jundiai/Nossos%20Aquarios/05Aug2007_Aldrovandaseedling_1.2.jpg

Unfortunately, I could never get them to grow to full size plants, or at least confirm I did (I just tossed this in with the rest of my plants).

Hope you enjoy!

[tsunderl]

Very cool info. Didn't realize there are carnivorous water plants. Can big fish be kept with them?

[sjivani]

Very interesting!
:)

[greytdobe]

this is soooo facinating...keep posting. I'm a planted tank fanatic and have never even thought of a carnivorous plant...it is very pretty too...quite delicate looking. Keep posting.

And welcome to the box. You are going to really make things interesting:)

[alta678]

Fascinating! I have always found carnivorous plants interesting--just didn't know that these existed.

[budwick weiser]

Very awesome. Can't wait till yours starts to multiply again.
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[masroberts9]

COOL!! yeah, what kind of fish can be kept with these guys? i would think the normal planted tank kind but alot of them are fairly small. :confuzeld:

[bra8ndy8]

Look Haiven.....something to kill snails!!

That is soooo neat! So do u have to keep it fed?

[masroberts9]

what do you feed them?

[Homer_Simpson]

That is just so fascinating. I have always been interested in carnivorous plants and kept them successfully before. When I set up my planted tanks, I was looking for this type of plant to put in my tanks, but could not find it locally. You are so lucky to have access to a plant like that. They are very rare and hard to come by in many parts of the world.

Just curious, what kind of water conditions does it require to thrive. It would be good to know if I ever stumbled on some.

Thanks for sharing. I always wondered if anyone ever succeeded in keeping this plant in an aquarium.

[Aldrovanda]

Cool, glad you guys thought this was interesting!

The fish I keep are mainly small fish that won't bother the plants too much: tetras, otos, cories, plecos, cherry shrimp. I keep angels now also, they don't bother them either. The only fish I had a problem with was my SAEs, they would nibble at them from time-to-time. I just had to make sure they got fed everyday, and there was never much problem. My SAE now doesn't bother them though (as far as I know!).

I would just advise not keeping them with fish, or anything else, that likes to eat plants, like big cichlids, or goldfish.

So everyone always wants to know, how do you feed them?! That's the interesting part, right?! Well, I never put effort into it...I think they feed on small snails and baby cherry shrimp. As a matter of fact, one reason I don't think the plants have been growing much is that I don't keep cherry shrimp in their tank anymore (the angels eat them).

There is another kind of aquatic carnivorous plant that is easier to grow in the aquarium, that I bet many of you already have and didn't know it. It is called Utricularia. It looks like a thread (they can be quite long, and tangle up plants), with small little dots (about a millimeter or so in size) every half inch or so across the length. Those small dots are actually bladders (thus the common name, bladderwort). Small creatures trigger the traps (a lure may be present, but is unknown), and are sucked in. Sort of like how a medicine dropper works to suck up liquid. A photo of the plant can be found here: http://usuarios.lycos.es/portalcarnivoro/u_gibba1.jpg.

Let me know if anyone finds some in their tanks!

Also, if anyone expresses interest, I'll see if I can isolate some Utricularia and grow it up for freebies.

[alta678]

Yes, please put me on the list for some Utricularia!

[pam916]

Very interesting. Never knew such a thing existed.

[masroberts9]

i want to know more about venus fly traps. i've seen them at walmart, but have no idea where to begin with these guys. i've heard stories of them growing to 3 feet tall with traps the size of a fist. :confuzeld:

[Aldrovanda]

Everything you need to know about growing Venus Flytraps can be found here: http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq2000.html.

They won't grow as tall as three feet, even in the wild. Maybe more like three inches across on average, traps one inch across on average.

The plants at Walmart might be a good start. Though I would wait until March or April to buy them, when the weather warms up. Right now, mine are in dormancy (just like the tree and grass).

[TxBabyCat]

Wow that is really cool! Very pretty looking plant. Interesting reading.

[bra8ndy8]

So do they attract flies? Cause during the warm weather the flies have been crazy around here!

[Aldrovanda]

Nope, unfortunately they are not good at eliminating a fly infestation, just catching the occasional passerby. Which makes sense from an evolutionary point-of-view...if they were so good as a population at catching and eliminating their prey, there wouldn't be any left and they would die off. At least, that's my take on the whole thing.

[Brackish_Zygote]

I'm always interested in a new plant.

My uncle had a venus flytrap one summer in his kitchen, and it didn't do much to the fly population. I can't remember if it started to die inside or outside though, so I can't say for sure that it didn't catch anthing at all.

[bra8ndy8]

Well I will just stick one by the dog's food bowl....and their doghouse.....and see what they can do to the populations!!

[radioaktiv]

awesome pics and info

could be pretty useful for those that have snail infestation :p:

[AndrewH]

My best guess on why the plant isn't doing as well would be based on the difference in tap water from here vs. your previous location.

We typically have a lot of dissolved minerals (hard water), which also means typically we have high pH values. Most plants do best/better in slightly acidic water (low pH with lower dissolved minerals). I might recommend you adding some driftwood or peat moss to lower the pH a bit to see if that helps.

[Aldrovanda]

That is a very good thought. However, I tested the tap water here for dissolved solids, and it is actually about the same as in Boston--soft. There's a lot of lakes around Dallas (which surprised me when I moved here), maybe that's why? My water is so soft I need to add some MgCl2 and CaCl2 to bring up the general hardness, and some sodium bicarb to bring up the carbonate hardness. But maybe there's some other stuff in there that's causing problems, I need to look into this more.

I live near white rock lake, anyone else live near there and perhaps could confirm my results?

But, since you mentioned it, I'm going to go back and measure these things with new kits, just to be extra sure.

I want to grow enough of this stuff to one day give out as freebies to everyone!

[Aldrovanda]

AndrewH--good call on the water hardness. I checked today, with a new kit, and the GH from the tap was 7 dH. I've been adding some MgCl2 and CaCl2 to the tank, the GH measured at 8 dH. When I came here in May, I measured the GH at 2 dH (I added MgCl2 and CaCl2 to bring it up to ~4, well, that's what I thought I was doing!).

So, it seems my kit was bad, probably old, when I made the first measurement. Back in Boston, the Gh was about 3-4, and I had TONS of aldrovanda.

Luckily, I have a nice RO unit, with add-on deionizer. I'm looking now to go 50% tap water, 50% RO water for my weekly water changes (1/3 of tank volume). GH should settle to about 3-4 dH, which is where it used to be.

[ElijahTurtle]

Don't know how I missed this thread, but definetly major cool points! If you ever get it to the point of getting rid of some I would definetly be interested in having some.
I'm going to have to check it out some more.

[AndrewH]

Awesome... glad you might have nailed it down. It might not be 100% of the problem, but it's at least a place to start. Have you checked the other micronutrients compared to Boston? Do you have a steady fert regiment?

Major problem around this area (Southern US), is the fact that we have a TON of limestone & sandstone in the area (little further South is one of the largest limestone deposits in the world to my understanding). This sucks when it comes to water chemistry. When it rains the limestone, among other minerals, gets dumped into the local water supplies. This also causes the water companies to greatly increase their chlor. after a rain (beware of water changes right after a rain ;)). But if we haven't had enough rain to cause runoff within a few months you might get a sharp decrease in hardness and pH (as the water is allowed to settle in the lake/reservoir).

But it is what it is.

RO/DI @ 50-50 should do the trick nicely.

[Aldrovanda]

Good idea about checking for other micronutrients. Are you thinking to check the online water reports? I can measure PO4 and NO3, but nothing else with much confidence.

I have not have a regular fert program. I used to, but stopped since moving. I started again though last week: I add 10 ppm K, 5 ppm NO3, 1 ppm PO4 and 0.1 ppm Fe (from CSM+B mix) with my weekly 20 gallon (1/3 tank volume) water change. This is what I used to do when I had a fert program. I realize dosing now, and decreasing the water hardness amounts to doing to experiments at once, but I'll see where they take me. Getting things close to "the way they used to be" seems like a good idea at least.

Thanks for the additional water hardness information, it's a bit more of an issue out here! My policy now is to just check the GH and KH of my tap water prior to making my weekly water change.

[AndrewH]

To my understanding testing other micros aren't 100% necessary (nor all that easy unless you have the right equipment - I think the iron test only last 24 hours before it expires).

If you have or plan on having a fert program then micros shouldn't be that big a deal (I'm pretty sure there are some bottles that include a little of everything when dosing). Plants should tell you if there's not enough (brown edges on the leaves, slower growth than normal), but it might be kinna hard to tell starting off in a new area with the plants trying to adapt and recover from the move.

In your situation, the RO/DI unit seems like it'll be the best solution to this problem. If I were in your shoes, I might look into doing something along the lines of testing the tap say once a month to once every 2-3 months (and within a week after each and every rain storm - all year long). Set the RO/DI to change out @ 75% RO : 25% waste/tap then fert the water accordingly (as in slightly more ferts than normal since 75% will contain nothing). That should give you a pretty consistent reading in the tank all year long.

And you're very welcome. Glad I could help :cool:

[Aldrovanda]

Hey all, sorry for bringing back an old thread, but thought I'd give an update on how the aldrovanda are doing per your suggestions (especially for those of you who might be interested in acquiring some from me once I get it growing well again!). They are improving, and the population is increasing slightly (but still too low). They are looking really nice also, I have never seen traps on them as large as they are now!

I've been keeping the KH at around 4, and the GH at around 3, with 50:50 tap:RO water changes every other week. And I've been dosing ferts. Since my angelfish just started breeding, I've also been feeding the aldrovanda some baby brine shrimp. It's too early to tell if the feeding is making a difference though.

One thing: my tank has an 'oil slick' on the surface. I've never seen this before (in other tanks), might be affecting the growth of this just-below-the-surface plant. Any thoughts, or ideas on how to rid this?

[Dr. Awkward]

I get that sometimes. I read the oil slick can be caused by protein mixing with excess organic waste. Surface agitation could help break it up or you could scoop it up with a fine mesh net or paper towel.

[Trallen44]

This is normal when you don't have enough surface agitation. It depends on what type of filtration you use as to how to get more surface agitation. I get that in some of my tanks with spongefilters in it. When the duckweed gets to be to much it keeps the air bubbles from rippling the whole surface of the tank and mixing it in.

[SeanH]

I also grow Aldrovanda, the austr. red strain. I grow outside during the spring/summer/fall and in the greenhouse during the winter. The tank water is derv. from 50/50 tap/DI water. As well I maintain a number of different CP's.

[Aldrovanda]

Cool man, we should hang out sometime. There seem to be so few CP enthusiasts around here.

Yeah, it seems that the few people who do grow aldrovanda, grow it outdoors. (the Darnowski technique probably?). I've just had such good luck in the past growing in my aquarium, and such bad luck growing outdoors. I figure once I get a large enough population in the aquarium, I'll experiment again outdoors.

And thank you all for your advice about the 'oil slick' problem. I'm going to tinker a bit more with the surface agitation.

[alta678]

I also grow Aldrovanda, the austr. red strain. I grow outside during the spring/summer/fall and in the greenhouse during the winter. The tank water is derv. from 50/50 tap/DI water. As well I maintain a number of different CP's.

For those of us who are interested in growing CP would you mind listing the types of carnivorous plants you currently have? Thanks.

[Aldrovanda]

Hmm, let's see. At last count, I have about 70 plant pots with carnivorous plants, some very large, some very small. Outdoors, I have several types of venus flytraps, a few temperate sundews, and many Sarracenia (American pitcher plants). Inside, I have one large terrarium (a 55 gallon tank) with several Nepenthes (Asian pitcher plants). I also have one smaller terrarium (a 29 gallon tank) with several tropical sundews (including pygmy sundews), a butterwort, and a rainbow plant (Byblis).

[alta678]

Thanks so much! These types of plants have always fascinated me. Tell me, where do you find these locally?

[Aldrovanda]

I don't know of any place to see them locally, or in Texas for that matter, if that's what your asking. Though I probably wouldn't say so even if I did.

If you want to acquire some carnivorous plants to grow, there are many on-line merchants. PM me if you need some help buying on-line, I can recommend some merchants. Most common carnivorous plants aren't that expensive to purchase.

You should never, ever, collect carnivorous plants from the wild. Most, if not all, carnivorous plants are extremely endangered and live in fragile ecosystems. It's far easier and safer (not just for the plants, but for you too) to just buy them on-line.

[alta678]

Did not occur to me to collect from the wild. Places where they grow wild would be FAR from this dry area! I have seen them occasionally at Lowe's and Home Depot but was leery of buying them there. Thanks for the offer to help with merchants!

[SeanH]

"Places where they grow wild would be FAR from this dry area!" I wouldn't say that I have seen plants in Jasper, Tyler, and Angelina Counties, and a few more I can't remeber right now.

This is a nice place to see some without getting on private land
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/visitorcenters/tffc/visit/virtualtour/wetlandstrail/
It's not a far drive from Dallas

[alta678]

I can believe that. I am in Tarrant County. There is a real change in precipitation between east Dallas (temperate forest) and west Tarrant (grassland) Counties. Tyler, Jasper, etc. probably get even more than the eastern edge of Dallas county. For me, those locations are FAR away! :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

[SeanH]

If you ever want to try a Carnivorous plant I have extra "easy" plants you could try, just shoot me a pm.

[alta678]

What I would really like to do is start a terrarium with some of these types of plants in them. Maybe a five or ten gallon to start with? Is that possible? I am interested in having this in my classroom if possible.

[Dr. Awkward]

If you guys end up doing a group buy from an online retailer I'd like to go in with you. I've been wanting to try a sundew for quite awhile now.

[Aldrovanda]

What I would really like to do is start a terrarium with some of these types of plants in them. Maybe a five or ten gallon to start with? Is that possible? I am interested in having this in my classroom if possible.

It's possible, that's how I started with them. When I was back in New England, our carnivorous plant society helped set up 10 gallon terrariums for some elementary school science classrooms. You can keep many tropical sundews, butterworts, bladderworts, and some smaller asian pitcher plants in indoor terrariums. Maybe SeanH can hook you up with some. Having extra light (i.e. more powerful than the standard hood) is a must IMO. Keeping Venus flytraps, american pitcher plants and other temperate CPs in terrariums indoors is very difficult. They grow very well outdoors in NE Texas though!

I could not explain here all the basics of keeping CPs in terrariums. Here is a useful beginner's guide http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq3000.html.

[alta678]

Thanks for the information. LOL! Now I have another new bug in my ear! :rolleyes: I think this will be a very cool project though.

[Aldrovanda]

Can't believe I got these pics!...

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p219/Jundiai/Nossos%20Aquarios/2009895.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p219/Jundiai/Nossos%20Aquarios/2009894_mod.jpg

These are my fry from my angels most recent batch, the parents decided to adhere them right to the Aldrovanda! The arrow indicates a single trap...to the plant, they are bite size! The parents moved them sometime later on, and as cool as it might sound (maybe to me at least), I didn't see any fry caught in the traps.

BTW, the fert program is paying on. I've been dosing regularly, and I'm seeing the population expand. And they look really nice.

[tsunderl]

Awesome pic!!!!

[calestus]

That is pretty awesome!

[Sollo]

I can't help but just keep thinking where did all my shrimp go???

[philuponthepho]

That is badass...I would def buy it if the lfs sold it.