CO2 refills?

[supersmirky]

Anyone know a good place to go for CO2 exhange or refill around town?

[dcacjc]

Check Home Depot.

[TonyG]

I usually use praxair or airgas, though many welding supply shops can refill co2 tanks also.

[supersmirky]

Thanks guys. Wow, HD was awesome!!! Only $13 for a 10lb exchange

[spxsk]

Did you already blow through the remainder of the tank I sold you?

[AndrewH]

Thanks guys. Wow, HD was awesome!!! Only $13 for a 10lb exchange

Dang, that's not bad at all!

[supersmirky]

No....Come to find out its still got gas in it but the left guage said order gas...not sure what the hell I did. But anyways, I adjusted the main control valve and it popped back up. Sheesh, I am confused. Plus with the PH controller, my bubbles barely come out unless I set the PH low to where the alarm comes on. LOL I need lessons!

[spxsk]

Are you still getting amazing growth and such?

[AndrewH]

No....Come to find out its still got gas in it but the left guage said order gas...not sure what the hell I did. But anyways, I adjusted the main control valve and it popped back up.

Huh? How could there not be gas in it? The left gauge said to order more gas? I assume that is something printed on the gauge face once it reaches a low tank condition?

Sheesh, I am confused. Plus with the PH controller, my bubbles barely come out unless I set the PH low to where the alarm comes on. LOL I need lessons!

When you fill a CO2 tank, they fill it with liquid CO2 @ extremely high pressure. To become a gas it has to be exposed to low pressure (as in coming out of the tank or a way to escape the tank). When you have a "full" bottle (which is normally only 80% full) you have to keep it standing upright and not let it sit on it's side. The liquid is so cold (-56.6*C & @ -78*C = dry ice/solid) so if it touches the valve it can freeze it and or brake/crack the o-ring.

Even if you "sloshed" the liquid around within the tank it could have caused a valve/regulator/gauge problem until whatever it touched has had time to warm back up a bit.

What is your pH controller set at?

[supersmirky]

Yeah...it was wierd but it may be because I had turned off all the gas too...I don't know. I didn't think I touched the tank though.

Anyways, I have the PH controller set to 6.0 PH so that it keeps the solenoid open and I get roughly 1 bubble per second. If I keep the Controller at 6.4 or 6.5 it usually keeps the solenoid off and then I only get about 3-4 bubbles every 10 seconds. I am sure I am doing something wrong and just don't know how to set it correctly. haha. The Controller ONLY opens the solenoid once the PH drops below the set point.

Anybody that can give me schooling??

[TonyG]

Can't say that I have used a ph controller on my co2 setup, so not much help that direction.

Something I do want to mention is that if you are having your co2 tank refilled, instead of just swapping it out, bleed the tank off till you have around a 100psi or so of gas left in the tank. No need to use the guage or regulator for this, just get a good grip on the tank and crack the valve open and let it run until it feels like a 100psi or so of gas left in the tank. If you need to empty a tank that still has quite a bit of liquid left in it, do the same as above, just flip the tank upside down so you are blowing liquid out, unstead of gas...do not point at anything valuable or at anyone, and keep you fingers out of the liquid spray. Both are best done outside!

The whole point of doing the above before getting the tank refilled is that you will get a better fill, more CO2, for your money, as many of the refill pumps work off of hitting not only a certain weight of the liquid in the tank, but also on the gas pressure in the tank, so if you still have 1200psi in the tank, the refill pump will shut off sooner than if you just had a 100psi left. This is coming from the guys at praxair and personal experience.

[ElijahTurtle]

Forget the pH controler. Sell it & buy a timer & some fish.
Run your Tank soleniod & lights together on the same timer & adjust the flow to 1 bps & you'll be good to go.
It's like working a ronco rotiserie "Set it & Forget it"

[supersmirky]

So disconnect the PH controller and not use that as the set up...sounds good. I guess without the controller, the bubbles will continue to flow without an interference from the controller. Also, should this stop the solenoid from being so freaking hot too?

[AndrewH]

If you have a controller I'd recommend using it. There's a relationship between the KH, pH, and CO2.

The lower the dissolved minerals the more the pH will shift when injecting CO2. A controller will help limit the swing.

When the CO2 first comes on (say in the morning) the pH is say 7.0. Once the CO2 has been on for an hour it'll drop the pH to 6.0 before shutting off the CO2. A 1 point pH drop is pretty significant (10 fold difference from 6.0 to 7.0 and 100 fold difference from 5.0 to 7.0, etc.). I'd hate to see the fish suffer from pH swing. If the pH is being shut off at 6.4, but runs all the time at 6.0 then you should be fine.

If you already have the controller, why not use it? If you don't have a controller, use a timer for lights and CO2. But not ideal due to the pH swings that can happen (I know a lot of folks that use the timer method with good results). If you go to timer only, I'd recommend drop check testing as often as needed to get a feel of how the CO2 is affecting the tank. I'd recommend checking morning, noon, then evening to get a feel for how much the pH changes throughout the day.

Good reference - here (http://www.csd.net/%7Ecgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm)

And another - here (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/water-parameters/23531-co2-chart.html)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/attachments/water-parameters/812-co2-chart-co2-chart.gif


Oh and the solenoid getting hot is normal. It's taking on electricity to keep the valve open. Is it still hot after the CO2 has been off for a while?

[supersmirky]

thanks Andrew. I will check out those links. Also, the PH seems to stay pretty normal whether its being injected with CO2 or without. It stays in a range of 6.1 to 6.4

The solenoid does cool off though once the valve is shut. Only when the alarm is going and it is injecting the CO2 does it stay hot. But makes sense now!

Thanks a million guys.

[greeneyed]

Do you have to calibrate the controller?
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I haven't done anything with CO2.

[biggin]

I believe you do...
'
Do you have to calibrate the controller?
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I haven't done anything with CO2.

[supersmirky]

Yes....You still calibrate.