Discus...

[AndrewH]

Well some of you may know, but if not, I'm planning on going Discus and Angels in my 90 when I set it back up.

The current plan is to put up the 55, put everything from the 90 into the 55 (minus 35 gallons of water ;)), then reset up the 90 from scratch specifically for Discus and Angels.

My current knowledge extends only to the Angel part of the equation, so I'm needing help with the Discus side of things.

If you keep them, let me know what all you do. These fish are considerably more pricey then I'm used to, so I want this investment to be well thought out before attempting.

[tsunderl]

Catherine at True Percule breeds and shows Discus.

[AndrewH]

LOL, I actually talked to her today... good news (;))

[kewlkatdady]

man their discus tank were FREAKING BEAUTIFUL!

[AndrewH]

Yeah, I'm definitely gonna have Cat come over and help me setup the tank (or at least go check out her personal tanks and take LOTS of pictures and ask lots of questions).

[lellison]

yea, that is the person that I would suggest as well. SHe knows here stuff and will be able to guide you to keeping happy discus! When are you planning on starting this tank up?

[AndrewH]

Well, I'm currently working 3 jobs so not much time, but after the two contracts are over I'll have some extra cash to throw at it. I've been collecting equipment here lately, so maybe by the end of the year.

But with what I've been reading tonight... I dunno if this is something I should attempt just yet. Maybe stick with an Angels and Gourmi tank.

I currently have the 90 setup as a community and might just get another 90-125 if I do decide to go Discus.

[lellison]

just do what u really want to do

[arnold]

I have raised them together, get juvies and raise them up in your water, discus like angels will adapt to a whole range of ph, if you are not planning on breeding them I wouldn't worry to awful much about treating ph unless yours is sky high. Personally I would be looking for both from breeders, NOT from any LFS unless you want to pay a fortune for fish out of a shop, breeders usually have better fish at much better prices with a much better chance of being free from disease. I bought thumbnail size discus once from a store and had fantastic results, but I got them from a store that bred them and raised them up myself. I have kept lots of discus in the past and I only paid more than $25 once, at a show a young adult. Raising them is 1/2 the fun. They say not to keep angels and discus together for a variety of reasons but it has always worked well for me.
$12 fish I like to brag on below.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/paulscar/discus/79751840203_0_ALB.jpg

[ElijahTurtle]

If you really want to go this route make sure your tank has been running a loooong time. I let my 55G run for over 6 months before I ever considered adding the discus.

[lellison]

Oh wow. Didn't know you had to run it for that long.

[rolloffhill]

So if I was to change my tank up to put in discus, I'd be ok since it has been up for years. Even changing substrate possibly?

[arnold]

Since I run lots of tanks I always have seeded sponge or hob filters, I can take and get a tank ready in an hr or less depending on how big a hurry I'm in. I will take my dirtiest sponge filters to a new tank and its up and going bio wise almost immediately. Discus are not hard to keep, breeding can be a challenge but all they want is good water, stable ph and temp, (I like to keep mine around 82 to 84) and good food. People try to make them out to be hard to keep, they aren't if you just follow a few basics and start with healthy stock. I also do them bare bottom which makes it a little easier, a few discus in a planted substrate adds to the challenge and makes it a tad harder, I just add a few potted plants and a cone to spawn if wanted.

[fishyjoe24]

:threadjack: what about me i want to try discus too. what all do i need to know my ph stays at 6.8 but my water hardness is hard. everything checks out good in the tank, only thing is i know i would have to get rid of my tinfoils,what else would i have to get rid off. i have albino and spotted corys. i also have pictus catfish,and a few synadontis catfish. :confuzeld: what do i need to know. i'd go to kat but true per. is far from where i live i'm in plano.

[Kathy]

Andrew,

I can help you out when you get ready for discus. I would also suggest that you do some reading on some of the discus forums.

I'm an adminstrator on this forum so it happens to be my favorite http://discusasahobby.com/forum/

Another good discus forum is http://forum.simplydiscus.com/

Kathy (aka "Discus Lover" and "the other Katherine")

[AndrewH]

Hey Kathy, I thought I recognized you. Welcome to the site.

Yeah, I had been reading all I can (at least internet wise next I'll probably buy a book or two, any suggestions?). Most of what I can find state the typical Discus DOs and DON'Ts so from what I've gathered I need to change up my tank a much as I'm going to, then let it run for (like Amon said) six months or longer then start working on adding discus (currently been up since last Dec/Jan).

With my current work schedule (now working 4 jobs) and the holidays coming up, plus the changes I want to make to the tank in the very near future I think it's best if I just wait a while. Of course that means reading and learning all I can from now til then, so thank you very much for the links. And any & all advise is welcome and greatly appreciated.

[arnold]

Not trying to stir the pot but 6 months is like 5 1/2 to 6 months too long. Give me healthy fish a heater and a dirty seasoned filter and maybe 6 hrs if I'm lazy, Discus don't have to be that hard, its not rocket science.:eek:

[ElijahTurtle]

I'm not saying it has to run 6 months, but I let mine go that long so it would be well seasoned. With the plants I was running I got it to the point were I almost never did a water change, & still don't. Before that, I had the tank sitting empty in my living room for over 8 months till I could afford to set it up right. Probably the only time in my life I can claim I exercise the statement the "Patience is a Virtue"
I spent that year or so studying various approaches to keeping discus & bout when I couldn't pass up the deal I got. I only spent $40 on both my wild discus. Water parameters are always spot on. I'm big on low maintenance tanks & learned a lot from a guy over at FishGeeks who keeps both Fresh & SW tanks without filtration & hasn't done a W/C on them in years...Yeah I said that right. I'm not that fanatical though. LOL
So I absolutely agree with you...keeping Discus doesn't have to be rocket science.

[arnold]

well i dunno, keeping them without w/c might be a little closer to rocket science :D
and no w/c at all im not even tempted to try, but i would be very interested in hearing about the process, i knew a guy once who kept discus in a large tank with a wet dry bio as big as the tank that did next to no w/c. :rolleyes:

[arnold]

Crap! I meant to ask you today about the no wc system you were talking about, maybe next time :confused:

[ElijahTurtle]

The guy on FishGeeks goes by the user name beaslbob.
He uses No filtration or circulation on his FW tanks at all. Personally I think he's crazy for trying it, I guess I'm just paranoid though. A lot of what he says has merit though & it caused a stink a time or two with the forum mods, but he never got banned. I'm pretty sure it was him that mentioned seeing people in the Philippines running SW tanks without filtration as far back as the 70's. I never got into this topic with him though.
I talked with him in PM some along time ago about a lot of this stuff. So I took a lot of what he said & a lot of other sound advice from others. Then just kind of made my own theories about it all.

Here's his sig line
"fw planted (since 1979), salt fo (since 1979) mixed reef (since 2002) strong emphasis on the tank taking care of themselves. no water changes, untreated tap water, Fw no filtration or circulation, no dosing except baking soda and calcium on reef. "
http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name= ... highlight= (http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=47497&highlight=)
http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name= ... highlight= (http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=57246&highlight=)
http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name= ... ic&t=64318 (http://www.aquaria.info/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=64318)

[ElijahTurtle]

Just as a note I don't prescribe to his philosopy completely or to anyone elses for that matter. I wouldn't recomend it to anyone as a primary philosophy for keeping aquariums, nor would I recomend my method for that matter. :confuzeld:
My 55G has an Emperor 400 on it I've been running the original 2 disposable filter inserts & some Bio-Max in it for about 20 months. I've gone as long as 3 months without a W/C. Typically I only do a w/c when the filters start to get clogged. Not because I'm not a firm believer in doing W/C's, I really am. I think it's the most important thing most fish keepers can do & probably the most important advancement the hobby has made. Mostly I don't because I'm just lazy, that and it really doesn't need it. :hehe: I also don't put anything in my tank other than
I know that may sound hypocritical, but if a newbie asks me what to do to keep fish, Doing water changes is always the first advice I give them.
Obviously this process only works with moderatly or well planted tanks. So don't think you non-plnat african tank keepers can sit on your duff & drink all day since Amon said so :morning: The most important things I learned from all my studying fish books & reading forums is to watch your fish, they will tell you when something isn't right & DON"T OVER FEED & DON"T OVERSTOCK!!

Every fish keeper has to find the process that works for them & more importantly for thier fish.

[AndrewH]

I've heard of several tanks with heavy planting that have 0 maintenance other than pruning the plants and feeding the fish.

Theories/philosophy behind it's pretty simple. The #1 toxin in an aquarium is Nitrogen (ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte). #1 reason to do a water change is to dilute the nitrogen in the water. If you can find a way to eliminate all of them as soon (or shortly after) they're introduced then no need to do a water change unless it's for a different reason. The #1 plant food is nitrogen (of course the other two main ones are Potassium and Phosphorus which are the tree number on fertilizer in that order 10-10-10 = 10 nitrogen, 10 potassium, and 10 Phosphours). It's as simple as finding the correct number of plants to balance out the amount of nitrogen in the tank at all times. the others might need to be added and the substrate can handle the trace elements needed.

Of course there's no "magic" number nor formula (but someone might be able to come up with one given enough time). It's just gonna take a lot of time and patience, but I'm sure it can be done.

There are tons of examples in nature were this is displayed. Take the Asian swamps for example. They sit still and stagnant with a lot of plant growth and decaying plant matter. Yet fish thrive there. The periodic rain fall would be the equivalent to topping off the aquarium for evaporation, so both systems would have new water added from time to time, but no "major" water changes on a normal bases.

[arnold]

Shoot I have been over to Chandlers place and he didn't have a filter going, just air stones and water changes, all his fish look happy, one I liked in particular was a piece strait out of the river, substrate, rocks, plants n fish, seemed to Be doing just fine,

[poel_19]

Who is Chandler??

[ElijahTurtle]

Chandler: "Actually, it’s Miss Chanandler Bong"

[poel_19]

um....i feel really stupid now.....i don't get it :(

[ElijahTurtle]

:noidea: It's a quote from Friends. My wife loves that show

:threadjack:

[arnold]

I think he goes to the other forum most of the time, he has several large tanks set up that way.

[ElijahTurtle]

Ok I know who your talking about, I've never met him though. That's pretty cool, I would like to see that river setup. I love river tanks. I've always wanted to do a cold water rainbow & brook trout setup of course that would have to be a fast water tank.

[ElijahTurtle]

....and if the trout got to big I could just eat them! :chef: LOL
*insert better food smiley here* hint hint
J/K