UGJ...

[kewlkatdady]

I'm fixin to set up my 58...

I've never used UGJ's before, but I think I'm going to on this tank...

I know that the output of each jet needs to be 100-150 gph...

ok now to my question...

I've been looking for a 400-600 gph power head...I can't seem to find one...

I've looked at maxi jets... and the maxi jet 1200 is only 295 gph...

I've always thought this is a cheap additional to a tank... If I have to buy 2 power heads to run 4 jets...that doesn't cost effective...

thoughts?????

[AndrewH]

Mag Drives pumps...

Mag 7 at 0' head is rated at 700 gph

They're a little high priced, but they'll last forever and WILL pump what they're rated.

I have two Rio 1700 that are rated at 642 gph at 0' head. I'd sell them to you for $30 each, or $55 for both.

Rio 1700 (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~TA3148.html)

[AndrewH]

or you could get a Rio 3100 @ $65 (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~TA3160.html) and run up to 6 jets with one pump.

[kewlkatdady]

Are your rio 1700 new?


Mag Drives pumps...

Mag 7 at 0' head is rated at 700 gph

They're a little high priced, but they'll last forever and WILL pump what they're rated.

I have two Rio 1700 that are rated at 642 gph at 0' head. I'd sell them to you for $30 each, or $55 for both.

Rio 1700 (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~TA3148.html)

[AndrewH]

I bought them new when I setup the 90 back in Jan and ran them for about 5 months until I bough the canister filter and desided to go a different direction with the tank.

I still have all of the original packagin and parts.

[kewlkatdady]

let me make sure that I wanna do a ugj system and I'll let ya know...

thanks...

[AndrewH]

LOL, groovy. They ain't going anywhere. And don't feel obligated in anyway as I'm sure I'll find some use for them if you don't ;)

[Travis_Conklin]

Hey when I get home to my PC I will post all kinds of good info and pics...I just put a UGJ system in my 100 gal.

[kewlkatdady]

:rolleyes: <--- me patiently waiting...

Hey when I get home to my PC I will post all kinds of good info and pics...I just put a UGJ system in my 100 gal.

[Travis_Conklin]

Hey sorry, I will try again this evening I had to watch the kido's...(mom went to PTA meeting) and clean my hundred... I will try to get everything together this evening...sorry for the wait.

[bra8ndy8]

Nice having you over here Travis!!:welcome:

[fishyjoe24]

what is or what are ugj? nevermind i think i figured it out underground jets. you're talking about powerheads right.
rios and mags are good.

[xtc]

Hey sorry, I will try again this evening I had to watch the kido's...(mom went to PTA meeting) and clean my hundred... I will try to get everything together this evening...sorry for the wait.

Shew- now I don't feel so bad about not callin you back lastnight.

They were "Rio Meta pair"- per my notes...I'm ASSuming that's what you asked me for based on the circle I made...

[kewlkatdady]

I may hook the return from my fluval 405 to the ugj....

thought?

[AndrewH]

What's the output of the 405?

I would think that'd work just fine.

[kewlkatdady]

its only rated at 340 gph...

but I still think that would be plenty for 3 jets...and I'll put a power head for the back of the tank. Something like this...
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i134/kewlkatdady/58setup.jpg

By the way this is a 58 (3 foot tank)

[Travis_Conklin]

"Thanks", for the hello Brandy....Second..."Thanks" for getting back to me Chris.

[Travis_Conklin]

Alright I have been so busy I don't know what my name is...LOL. I am doing United Way for my work and running fund raisers so I haven't been at my desk and the kids went back to school and they have all the extra stuff before and after school, "so" I have not been able to hit the fourms.

UGJ...lots of great info here...http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ug_jets.php

That is where I got the idea for mine. Mine are in my hundred wich I house Malawi Mbuna and some Haplochromines. I ran 3/4 inch PVC pipe and two Maxi-Jet 1200's. I get great flow...the only difference in mine is I didn't do the heating and crimping of the pipe, like in the article. I put caps on them and drilled a single hole in the cap, in the direction I wanted the flow. I have seven outlets on mine. If you have any questions you can fire away I can try and answer them. Pic's below...sorry finished product is a little blurry.

[arnold]

power head prefer I do, but UGF all ran for YEARS with just air power, if you have nuff air running its cheaper but a little old fashion, still works ok, I do use power heads on the one I have though, easy it is

[AndrewH]

Alright I have been so busy I don't know what my name is...LOL. I am doing United Way for my work and running fund raisers so I haven't been at my desk and the kids went back to school and they have all the extra stuff before and after school, "so" I have not been able to hit the fourms.

UGJ...lots of great info here...http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ug_jets.php

That is where I got the idea for mine. Mine are in my hundred wich I house Malawi Mbuna and some Haplochromines. I ran 3/4 inch PVC pipe and two Maxi-Jet 1200's. I get great flow...the only difference in mine is I didn't do the heating and crimping of the pipe, like in the article. I put caps on them and drilled a single hole in the cap, in the direction I wanted the flow. I have seven outlets on mine. If you have any questions you can fire away I can try and answer them. Pic's below...sorry finished product is a little blurry.

Dang travis, freakin great idea. I didn't even think of solving the problem with smaller outlet holes!! What size hole did you drill?

And your layout looks very simple and easy.

power head prefer I do, but UGF all ran for YEARS with just air power, if you have nuff air running its cheaper but a little old fashion, still works ok, I do use power heads on the one I have though, easy it is

Thanks arnold/jodu, so you're saying our used air through the UGJ system?

[arnold]

Naw I read wrong, I was thinking UGF not jets, your on the right track w the power heads. :rolleyes:

[kewlkatdady]

So I hooked the fluval 405 upto my UGJ's...

worked but not well enough...

I'm expecting a snowglobe with the sand when I first hook it up...then it should settle down.

Am I expecting to much?

[biggin]

I was thinking it would be a snow globe all the time.....

[kewlkatdady]

It should produce a current but I wouldn't think it would always be a snow globe.

[biggin]

I would think it depends on the sand and how clean it was....

I know with the 3m colorquartz you would have NO chance.... play sand....depends on the sand and how clean it was... something like aragonite (sp) if it were clean I think it would be ok....

I would also think that it would eventually clean up the sand.... eventually being the key word...

[kewlkatdady]

I used pool filter sand. It very clean...I can run my fingers through the sand and no cloud appears.

But I just think that there should be more of a "flow" in order to do what it is intended to do...blow the crap off the surface...

[biggin]

It is a pretty fine sand though I would think you need something with a little more weight to it.

[kewlkatdady]

I'm missing you...what does the sand, gravel or substrate in general have to do with the flow of the UGJ's

[biggin]

you want the flow but not the snow globe effect....

I would think lighter sand would go crazy and not really settle and look nice....

[kewlkatdady]

oic what your saying...

You can adjust the jets to just spray over the top on the sand. There is a little of the snow glabe affect at first, but it will settle down shorty...

[ElijahTurtle]

So are we still talking about doing under gravel jets or running a RUGF/RFUGF Reverse flow under gravel filter? I wouldn't think that it would be the latter since your talking mostly about using a sand substrate. :confuzeld: I'm confused now LOL

[kewlkatdady]

we are talking about UGJ's...

AndrewH, do you still those rio's? If so, do they have the prefilter kit in them?

[AndrewH]

Yeah, I still have them, but I tossed the prefilter kits into my XP3 to jump start it's bacteria. They're simply 1" wet/dry overflow prefilters that I zip tided one end closed. It's not actually a prefilter kit made for an RIO pump (kinna a DIY).

I'll leave em in my XP3 if you want them, so they come ready to go.

[AndrewH]

So are we still talking about doing under gravel jets or running a RUGF/RFUGF Reverse flow under gravel filter? I wouldn't think that it would be the latter since your talking mostly about using a sand substrate. :confuzeld: I'm confused now LOL

Yeah the RUGFs still require somewhat large gravel like the normal UGF, but the UGJs are basically a jet(s) of water flowing over the top of the substrate (whatever substrate you use) to keep anything from settling. Unless you have a pre-filter on it, it really doesn't filter the water. You would still need an additional filtration method in place. With a pre-filter, you could allow the UGJ system to act as a primary or even a secondary filtration system.

I personally would have a second filtration system on the tank, but it may not be 100% necessary.

[kewlkatdady]

I would try to aim the jets towards your filter intake...

other than that, it looks good, but it looks like it will have the current of a hottub...

[Nazrac]

i would use a quietone 3000 to do a bigger tank its already treaded for 1" npt and is quieter than just about any pump of that capacity.

[AndrewH]

Welcome to the site... another Sherman-ite :D

What is the flow rate for that Quietone 300 (I'd assume 300 gph, but wanted to check)? What's their price range?

[bra8ndy8]

WOW HEY NAZ!!!! I live in Sherman too!!! YEAH more Shermatiers to help me out here!!

[Nazrac]

3000 puts out 780 gph and the cost is 50 normally but right now it is 40 at www.drsfostersmith.com (http://www.drsfostersmith.com) and the 2200 is $38 and puts out 581 gph and i made a mistake they have 1" npt male outputs. :exactly:

[Nazrac]

To bad it seams that i am getting out of the freshwater hobby. Going down to one huge reef tank so i'm trying to sell my 180 cichlid tank and then when i get my 265 reef set up i will sell my 70 tall reef tank.:confuzeld:

[Nazrac]

why did i get an email from you trying to get me to register when i am trying to sell my tank on cl?

[bra8ndy8]

what cichlids are u selling? ohh I am just advertising the site to get more users.....I didn't know u had joined!

[AndrewH]

KKD, what piping and connection sizes did you use for your UGJ and to get it to connect up to the Rio 1700?

[greeneyed]

The pump includes an undergravel filter adapter, undergravel filter strainer, a discharge adapter with Venturi jet and a flow control, a venturi tube with a silencer, a second discharge adapter with an air stopper, an elbow, a duckbill flow nozzle, a 3/4" MPT / Slip with a 1" FPT/Barbed Hose Adapter, a 3/4" MPT/ Slip with a 3/4" FPT/3/4" Barbed Hose Adapter, a rim hanger with a suction cup bracket, and a suction cup bracket and stand with four suction cups.
Probably 3/4"?
Without going back and reading everything in this and Budwick's thread what should we shoot for per nozzle as far as gph? Also, what would be a good rule of thumb for nozzle per square foot, or vice versus?

[AndrewH]

Which thread did you quote that from? I couldn't find that info anywhere on KKD's thread (this one). The reason I'm specifically asking KKD is because I have the same pump he does :D.

The target gph out of each "jet" was determined to be 100-150 gph. That would be enough to keep the debris from sinking, but not enough to stir up the sand. And when sizing your pump, simply take it's max gph rating and divide it by the number of jets (or take the number of jets and multiply by 100 to 150 to get the gph rating pump size). If the pump is mounted inside the tank there is no head loss. If the pump is below the tank (say in your sump) you do need to calculate the head loss.

The jets per square foot question is a little more difficult to answer because the jets are designed per the aquascape layout. Mostly you want a good even coverage to make sure you get around all the decorations and in all the corners. Might be 3 jets or it might be 6, really hard to say without a decor layout plan.

[greeneyed]

I quoted that from a description of a place online selling them.
And thanks for the information.

[AndrewH]

Gotcha, thanks.

Problem is, like I found out the hard way, the 3/4" pump output might be ID or OD. You buy one, it'll be the other. I have a box full of 3/4" PVC because it was an OD measurement (which the box didn't state) and not the ID I was assuming.

& YVW

[kewlkatdady]

Andrew... I have no F'ing clue...

I took the pump to HD with me and just found whatever worked...

None of the UGJ is glued, so when we pull the pump, we can just rob the fitting that are on the UGJ system.

[AndrewH]

That's cool. We can work it out onsite.