Determining Pump Size for Wet/Dry

[greeneyed]

OK, I just go a 135g tank. It came with a brand new wet/dry(big).
What would I be looking for as far as a return pump?
What are the better brand pumps?
Is there anything specific I should be looking for?
Really new with the whole wet/dry thing.

Help:exactly:

[biggin]

Mag Drives are great.

Look for as much as your overflow will allow.

[AndrewH]

Normally with a wet/dry pump you're wanting to turn over the tank volumn 3-5 times per hour.

135 * 3 = 405
135 * 5 = 675

Look for a pump with a gph (gallon per hour) rating in that range at the head high from your wet/dry to the top of the return pipe (normally 6' head height is a good starting point so to include the flow loss with the pipe fittings).

I'll second the Mag Drive pumps are supposed to be the best available.

The Mag 7 (http://www.bestnest.com/bestnest/RTProduct.asp?SKU=PON-02527) is in the lower range from above @ 6' head, and the Mag 9.5 (http://www.bestnest.com/bestnest/RTProduct.asp?SKU=PON-02720) is in the upper range from above @ 6' head. :D

[rolloffhill]

Go with the mag 9.5

[AndrewH]

x2 :hehe:

You can always reduce the flow if it's a little to much, but it's hard to increase the flow if it's not enough ;)

[flamenco-t]

Wow, you guys are huge on Mag pump huh ? Don't get me wrong, mag pump are great. BUT in my experience, mag pumps tends to have starting issues after 2-3 years. The other downside of Mag pumps are it draws too much electricity and creates too much heat.

I did a test one time, with 32 gallon of water. I stick a Mag 7 in there, with the room temp at 70 degrees, within 6 hours, the water temp rose to 77 degrees.

The next day, I put my ocean runner 2500, with room temp at 70 degrees, the water temp only rose to 72 degrees. Now imagine that in the summer time with AC off.

Plus Mag 7 draws about 85-90 watts of current, while ocean runner only draws 38 watts.

Both flows the exact same number.

IMO, I think there are a lot more option for pumps than mag drive.

Ocean Runner, Eheim, Quiet One, Dolphin and etc. Eheim are expensive, but I nver cleaned my Eheim EVER in 2-3 years and never had a single starting issues.

To answer the original poster question, please reply with the following info.

1. If your tank is reef ready (drilled), what size PVC is your overflow pipe ? If not, how much flow is your hang on back overflow will handle ?

2. Give me the Vertical length (from the bottom of the sump to the top of the tank), any horizontal length and how many 90 or 45 degree PVC bends that you are using.

3. What size PVC or Inside diamater of the hose that you're using the return the water to the display tank.

Give me those info and I'll get you some pump reccomendation.

stan

[flamenco-t]

Mag Drives are great.

Look for as much as your overflow will allow.

I kinda disagree with this statement. I always size up a pump that can pump 3/4 of your overflow capacity MAX at pump's full speed.

If for some reason your overflow gets clogged up or slime and algae build up over time, you can have a disaster in your hand if your pump is at the same flow level as your overflow. By having some room for error, you can get an advance warning when your tank water level gets higher than normal.

stan

[biggin]

So throw the biggest and baddest he can find?

If your overflow is only dropping 600gph getting a pump that is throwing up 800gph does not work very well. That is all I was saying.

I kinda disagree with this statement. I always size up a pump that can pump 3/4 of your overflow capacity MAX at pump's full speed.

If for some reason your overflow gets clogged up or slime and algae build up over time, you can have a disaster in your hand if your pump is at the same flow level as your overflow. By having some room for error, you can get an advance warning when your tank water level gets higher than normal.

stan

[greeneyed]

I think he is saying get a pump that only outputs 3/4 of what your/my overflow can drop.

So with your figures if the overflow drops 800gph, then get a pump that runs 600gph.

Not much update, tore everything apart over the weekend. Did get pictures of everything.
I will be building my overflow boxes(I think I will have 2 for aesthetics)since I have 2 j-tubes. Or do you think 1 j-tube will be enough?
I will edit with pics of the j-tubes sometime today while at work.

These are the J-tubes I have...http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5821/jtubesir2.jpg

Do you think I will need both of them? Or would 1 be enough?
They are roughly 1" X 2" oval shaped. Maybe a little bigger, I haven't put a rule to them.

If I have to go with both, Like I said earlier if I have to use both, then I will probably build 2 overflow boxes, 1 for either end.

[AndrewH]

The more overflows (J-tubes) you have the more water you can flow.

If I remember correctly 1" PVC can flow a max of 600 gph, so I would suggest using both of them if you have the room to do so.

[steve]

I have a hob overflow how can I determine the amount of water it will flow?

[tsunderl]

Is there any kind of marking on the overflow that tells the manufacturer and model number? May be able to Google that info to find out.

[greeneyed]

What size down pipes are on it? And how many?

[steve]

Okay I googled it and found the recommended pump. I have never used a wet dry before do I have to use this hob overflow or is there another way to hook it up?

http://www.sealife-systems.com/page6a.html here is what I have it is the pro150.

[AndrewH]

The HOB overflow size is limited to the pipe(s) or bulkhead(s) installed.

If you have a single 3/4" pipe your max flow is 450 gph. If you have 1" pipe max is 600 gph. 1-1/2" = 800 gph.

If you have two 1" pipes the max flow is 1200 gph.

The max flow is determined by the smallest diameter in the loop. Meaning if you have 1-1/2" pipe into a reducer into a 1" bulkhead, then your max is the 1" bulk head or 600 gph.

[steve]

So if I understand this correctly if I have a HOB overflow that has a loop tube that goes from inside the tank to the back of the tank that will determine the maximun flow rate correct not the tube going from the back of the tank to the wet dry?

[greeneyed]

If those are the smallest pieces in the loop..

[rolloffhill]

Yes that would be your limiting factor. I think you can add a second J tube, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

[AndrewH]

Yup, you can add as many "J" or "U" tubes as needed. Once you reach the max of the tubing going from the overflow box to the wet/dry then that becomes your limit (whatever size that tubing is).

Some overflow boxes will only support X number of Js or Us due to physical limitations... I believe the design I have will allow for 3-4 total tubes. It came with 2 U tubes.

[steve]

Great thanks lets see if I can get it all hooked up tonight I bought a rio 2500 for $8 at DNA today hope it works if not I have another one at home. Ill keep you posted.

[AndrewH]

A Rio 2500 is a beast and at $8 a steal!!!

Let us know if you have any problems getting it setup, we'll help you figure it out or stop by for a look see.

[steve]

Okay I have it setup I had a little leaking problem that took me a day to figure out but I got it fixed. My next question is what happens if for some reason my pump goes out or turns off it was only $8. I turned it off to fix a leak and lets just say i did not know it would syphon the water from the tank to the wetdry abnd I had a small flood (good thing my wife is out of town) how can I prevent this from happening I really dont want to come home to 100g of water on my floor.

[greeneyed]

Can you show us a picture of your overflow box?
If designed right it shouldn't continue to siphon after the the tank water gets below a determined level.

Here a link with some info on the overflow boxes.

http://www.dfwfishbox.com/forums/production/showthread.php?t=994

[steve]

http://www.sealife-systems.com/page6a.html here is what I have the 150. I dont have a problem with the overflow that works fine when the water gets below the overflow point it stops I have a problem with the pump syphoning when you turn the power off it keep sucking water out of the tank until I turn the pump back on or remove the hose.

[tsunderl]

Can you put a checkvalve somewhere?

[dcacjc]

I did what tsunderl suggested, just go to Home Depot or Lowes and get a check valve and place it between the tank and your pump.

[rolloffhill]

You are going to have to put a siphon break in your return line. Check valves will work, but they can also fail.

I came up with a little tweak to assure mine didn't flood the sump. In my return line, I drilled a hole, glued in a hard airline tubing connector and ran hose from that into my tank. So when the pump turns off as long as those aren't submerged they will stop the siphon. When the pump is on it just shoots out of there, you can either direct it back into the tank or anywhere else for that matter, as long as it is above the water line.

I have since changed to the "stealth" black airline tubing to keep the algae from growing in the tube. With it being right under the lights it grew pretty quick and clogged the line.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u195/rolloffhill/DIY/DSC00020.jpg

[biggin]

I can not do this option.... I tried a couple different ways and could never get it break the siphon. it would gurgle like mad but would drain....and drain....and drain....

I went the check valve route.

My thought is that a lot of these are used in situations of dirty water and do not have problems....lakes, wells, etc.... not saying it is impossible I just do not think it is that likely.

You are going to have to put a siphon break in your return line. Check valves will work, but they can also fail.

I came up with a little tweak to assure mine didn't flood the sump. In my return line, I drilled a hole, glued in a hard airline tubing connector and ran hose from that into my tank. So when the pump turns off as long as those aren't submerged they will stop the siphon. When the pump is on it just shoots out of there, you can either direct it back into the tank or anywhere else for that matter, as long as it is above the water line.

I have since changed to the "stealth" black airline tubing to keep the algae from growing in the tube. With it being right under the lights it grew pretty quick and clogged the line.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u195/rolloffhill/DIY/DSC00020.jpg

[rolloffhill]

Where did you drill the hole for this option when you were trying it?

[steve]

I dont know that this option will work for me either I have a hob overflow and have a u shaped spout for my return. Also I dont mean to be an idiot but I dont know what a check valve is.

[tsunderl]

A check valve is a device that allows flow to go in one direction. The one I'm thinking of has a spring loaded ball inside. When water flows as it should, the ball is away from the opening due to the pressure. When the pressure can no longer hold the ball away, the spring relaxes and the ball seals off further flow. You'll find them in the plumbing department of HD and Lowes.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Checkvalveclosed.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Checkvalveclosed.png) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Checkvalveopen.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Checkvalveopen.png)
First illustration is closed while the second is open.

[AndrewH]

The only problem I have with check valves (a.k.a. one way valve) is the fact it takes away from your return pressure to keep the "ball" open (or whatever method the design uses to close during back flow). It's not a huge amount, but if you're already on the lower limits of return flow a check valve will drop it even further.

Steve has plenty of flow for a check valve. Simply go to HD or Lowes and ask someone in the plumbing department for some help. If they truly know anything about plumbing they'll be able to help you fix the situation from you giving them a basic understanding of what you're dealing with and trying to fix. Be sure to know the pipe/plumbing sizes before you leave the house ;).

[steve]

you guys are the best thanks