Lighting Help (Andrew) [Archive]

xtc

11-25-2007, 07:53 AM

I want to do 3 (or 4- if they'll fit) T-12 bulbs inside the DIY canopy of my planted tank. I need some scematics, parts lists and prices if you can help me out.

My canopy is 47.5" long and 11" front to back. I have 2.5" inches of clearance between the open top and the inside/top of the canopy. Is 47.5" too short? if so, the top is supported by .5"x.75" pieces of wood and I could possibly drop the lights down .75" and get to the total length of 48.5"

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l282/Fishgallery/CIMG0079.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l282/Fishgallery/CIMG0080.jpg

poel_19

11-25-2007, 10:14 AM

why t-12 bulbs? they are not the most efficient, i would recommend t-8's ir if so inclined, t-5's, by far the most efficient tube bulbs on the market.

xtc

11-25-2007, 02:14 PM

I dunno- I've already got 2 bulbs, so it'll keep cost down a touch- but I'll let 'drew get home and talk me into goin one way or another- I'm kinda easy like that.

rolloffhill

11-25-2007, 03:19 PM

You really need a schematic to mount shop lights in your hood??

Go to HD or Lowes and figure out which ones will fit. Most 48" lights are going to be 48" so you'll have to work around that 47.5" thing you got goin on.

What size light is that in there now?

biggin

11-25-2007, 03:22 PM

Most 48" lights are going to be 48"

Ummmm

ummmm.....

ummmmm....

duh....

rolloffhill

11-25-2007, 03:27 PM

Ummmm

ummmm.....

ummmmm....

duh....

Smartass, meaning if he is shooting for 48" lights then 47.5" isn't going to work....:flipa:

biggin

11-25-2007, 03:32 PM

You are just jealous my fridge has a beer handle....

Smartass, meaning if he is shooting for 48" lights then 47.5" isn't going to work....:flipa:

rolloffhill

11-25-2007, 03:44 PM

Nope not really, I got one too...;) :threadjack:

xtc

11-25-2007, 04:49 PM

you suck at read Skipp- So, let's make an excessively long post to get you caught up to speed.

That 48" shop light is sitting on top of the brace that holds the canopy on top of the tank- which is .5" wide on each side- thus the 47.5"- which is the same as the underside/top of the canopy. I'm looking to mount the bulbs (with caps and external ballast) to the underside top of the canopy- rather than having a shop light lay across the top.

The issue I have is in it's current configuration- I can not add lights and still open the glass hoods. So I need to raise the bulbs higher in the canopy in order to open the glass lids (yes, I need glass lids)- mounting the shop lights to the underside is A. not possible because of the 47.5" and b. will hang too low and prohibit me from opening the glass lids. I want to add more lights/ more wattage to grow different plants. Blake said I need more red. (colors I can't friggin see).

I'm not 100% sold on t-12s, I'm willing to listen- thus the thread. I can add 1 and live- but I think I'd like to get the wattage up to 160w- without breaking the bank- yes, I know I could buy a couple PCs for a C-note and be done with it, but I think 'drew can come up with something cheaper and more enjoyable to build. you with me?

I have a beer fridge, but it only has cans- oil cans- but cans none-the-less
. :flipa: Skipp, your beer fridge is not currently operational- wimp!

rolloffhill

11-25-2007, 05:07 PM

Could you add a spacer to the top of the hood to space a light down to clear the 47.5" part and make it work? Meaning the reason it is 47.5" is because of the corner support that connects the side and top together right? So if you took a 1x and nailed it to the underside of the canopy so you could mount your lights from there, then you would be back to ~48"?

xtc

11-25-2007, 05:17 PM

yes- but the goal is to get more lights and get rid off the bulky housing. adding the 1" spacer and mounting a shop light would still hang down lower than the 2.5" from the top I need. AND I couldn't add another bulb or two.

I know I'm askin for a super easy project- but I wouldn't have a clue about a particular ballast, caps or where to get the stuff- that's Andrews area of expertise. I figure he's gunna tell me model numbers and general prices before I start this project- remember, I still haven't finished the wet/dry on peanuts tank- so I wanna figure out if this is worth it or not. Under $50 and it's a no brainer. At $100- I buy a pair of 24" PCs at 65w each and get rid of the canopy all together...if I do the project at all.

rolloffhill

11-25-2007, 05:24 PM

What is your WPG goal?

xtc

11-25-2007, 05:38 PM

more than what I have now... I know, as close to 3 as possible is "best".

I would accept 2.18 compared to my current 1.45 (which isn't broken/hasn't been for a while now)- but I could use a bit more.

3 t12s=2.18
2 24" PCs=2.36
4 t12s=2.91

So the other factor to go into the equation is cost for the project.
3 t12s=? (less my current 2 bulbs)
2 PCs=$110
4 t12s=? (less my current 2 bulbs)

rolloffhill

11-25-2007, 05:48 PM

Well you can get right at 2WPG for $70 or if you can reuse your shoplight you can be at 3.45WPG with this kit. Item # 30552 (http://www.ahsupply.com/36-55w.htm)

That would be PC lighting though

Plus the price of the bulb...:o

AndrewH

11-26-2007, 01:46 PM

brb

AndrewH

11-26-2007, 02:49 PM

T8 and T12 use the same sockets (the ends where the 2 prongs plug in and twist), so really the only difference is the ballast. Most ballast for T12 can handle T8 because the T8s are less wattage. Most ballasts will even say, For Use with T12 - 40 or T8 - 32W :D.

Here you go... first off invest some pennies on some glossy white paint (spray paint will do and doesn't have to 100% be glossy). Paint the entire inside of the canopy white. This will act as a reflector and push the light down towards the tank. Even if you leave the light exactly as it is now, you'll notice a difference. Dark Color = absorbs light, Light Color = reflect light.

With 4 - T12s you're looking at 160w @ 10000 lumens
With 4 - T8s you're looking at 128w @ 10000 lumens (same amount of light, just less energy to get it). One of the main differences is the lamps diameter, which the T12 require more space between the lamps. But you can plan for T12s then be sure you have plenty of space for T8's for later on. Either way, T12 or T8, you should have plenty of room to still open your glass tops.

More than likely you can disassemble the current shop light you have and fit the lamps under the canopy using the parts and pieces then remote mount the transformer(s) above or behind the canopy.

I already have 2, T8/T12 ballast which will handle 2 lamps each that you can have, plus I have a box of T12 - 34w (know as energy savers, but still output the same lumens) which I'll give you too.

If you can wait a couple weekends, I'm already planning to be at Blake's and/or Joel's houses, so I'll just bring everything you need. All you'd have to do is have the canopy painted :D

Let me know what you think.

AndrewH

11-26-2007, 02:53 PM

If you're wanting to do it quicker than that, I'll make you up a schematic and parts list. Just let me know.

[Basically, if you have a 48" fixture and a 47.5" space, you slightly rotate the fixture (fit it in at an angle) so that it fits. The plants don't care, and since you have a canopy it won't show from the outside. Or you go with multiple sorter lamps, like 24"ers.]

AndrewH

11-26-2007, 03:00 PM

Another option would be to use T5 tubes. The only down side is finding sockets for 'em. Last time I did find some they were $1 each, but the major upside is they're small in diameter, so you can fit a lot of them in a small space.

And I don't already have all the parts for T5, but if you give me enough time I could get 'em.

48" - T12 - 40W - ~2500 lumens (1 1/2" diameter)
48" - T8 - 32W - ~2500 lumens (1" diameter)
48" - T5 - 28W - ~2500 lumens (5/8" diameter)
(same output, just uses less energy as you go down in lamp diameter)

So:
160W (4) T12 = 2.91 wpg and 10,000 lumens
128W (4) T8 = 2.38 wpg and 10,000 lumens
112W (4) T5 = 2.04 wpg and 10,000 lumens
(they all output the same amount of light, 10,000 lumens)

xtc

11-26-2007, 06:15 PM

Wahoo!!! Now THAT's what I'm talkin bout!! This is my plan!! Thanks Andrew!!!

:happydance::cheers:

T8 and T12 use the same sockets (the ends where the 2 prongs plug in and twist), so really the only difference is the ballast. Most ballast for T12 can handle T8 because the T8s are less wattage. Most ballasts will even say, For Use with T12 - 40 or T8 - 32W :D.

Here you go... first off invest some pennies on some glossy white paint (spray paint will do and doesn't have to 100% be glossy). Paint the entire inside of the canopy white. This will act as a reflector and push the light down towards the tank. Even if you leave the light exactly as it is now, you'll notice a difference. Dark Color = absorbs light, Light Color = reflect light.

With 4 - T12s you're looking at 160w @ 10,000 lumens
With 4 - T8s you're looking at 128w @ 10,000 lumens (same amount of light, just less energy to get it). One of the main differences is the lamps diameter, which the T12 require more space between the lamps. But you can plan for T12s then be sure you have plenty of space for T8's for later on. Either way, T12 or T8, you should have plenty of room to still open your glass tops.

More than likely you can disassemble the current shop light you have and fit the lamps under the canopy using the parts and pieces then remote mount the transformer(s) above the canopy.

I already have 2, T8/T12 transformers which will handle 2 lamps each that you can have, plus I have a box of T12 - 34w (know as energy savers, but still output the same lumens) which I'll give you too.

If you can wait a couple weekends, I'm already planning to be at Blake's and/or Joel's houses, so I'll just bring everything you need. All you'd have to do is have the canopy painted :D

Let me know what you think.

AndrewH

11-26-2007, 06:21 PM

Groovy, I'll bring 2 ballast which can handle 2 lamps each (4 lamp total), wire, wire connectors, and the tubes.

Heck I think I even have a can of white paint.

Do you want some switches, so that you can control the ballast independantly (turn on 2 or all 4 lamps)?

biggin

11-26-2007, 06:22 PM

If you are going this route just get a chissel and notch out spaces for the lights and it will save you .5 inches....

If you have not already thought of that.

AndrewH

11-26-2007, 06:25 PM

Shouldn't be a problem, the lamps are normally shorter than advertised so that the fixture can be the advertised length.

If you have a 48" fixture, your lamps have to be shorter to fit inside it ;).

I'll get an exact lamp length tonight when I get home. Either way, I'm pretty sure we can make 47.5" work.

AndrewH

11-26-2007, 06:27 PM

T12 = 47" (not including the pins on both ends, which go inside the sockets. And they do make skinny sockets, which I'll bring with me)

xtc

11-26-2007, 07:21 PM

you are sooo my hero!! I'll have it painted before the project day. Just gimmie a little advanced warning on when that is.

'drew- you ROCK!!

AndrewH

11-26-2007, 07:30 PM

It's my pleasure.

I'll definitely hit you up at least the Monday before (if I know) or as soon as I do know.

xtc

11-29-2007, 02:33 PM

Is white glossy paint more desirable than laying down an adhesive layer and putting down aluminum foil? Or it it just easier? What's optimal?

Here you go... first off invest some pennies on some glossy white paint (spray paint will do and doesn't have to 100% be glossy). Paint the entire inside of the canopy white. This will act as a reflector and push the light down towards the tank.

AndrewH

11-29-2007, 04:04 PM

xtc

11-29-2007, 04:11 PM

so- white paint it is.

AndrewH

11-29-2007, 04:14 PM

How do you like painted back? Would you recommend it? Or should I do a moss wall (for my new shrimp tank), or do both?

xtc

11-29-2007, 04:19 PM

I love the painted backs. Still not sure if I like blue or black more-

I did see your tank lastnight- I went and met Steve, picked up my tank. You should pick yours up tomorrow and let it set another day- the silicone was wet lastnight. Looks good though. nice guy.

AndrewH

11-29-2007, 04:25 PM

Black will absorb the light while blue will some what reflect it. (the lighter color blue like you have should be a good color as apposed to a dark blue). But in my own tank something I didn't expect is happening. I have black cloth hanging behind my tank (as apposed to painting it), and I have two plants in the tank. They were both planted at the same time and have always experienced everything the same. The one at the back of the tank, near the black cloth, is 6" bigger then the one at the front of the tank. The only thing I can think is going on, it the cloth is keeping the light in the tank forcing it to reflect off the back glass and the front is just letting the light pass through.

Pretty weird, but kinna makes since.

Sweet!!! I can't wait to get my tank :D.

xtc

11-29-2007, 04:30 PM

I was looking for a blue/green when I painted my blue tank- but I couldn't find any. I have a velcro drape in both blue and black for the back of Peanut's tank- we can change out the background color pretty easily. I like that.

kewlkatdady

11-29-2007, 04:46 PM

i never thought of having a drape...
thats a good idea.

I have black painted backgrounds now...I like the look.

biggin

11-29-2007, 04:59 PM

Really? That is cool I did not notice that was what it was. Cool.

I was looking for a blue/green when I painted my blue tank- but I couldn't find any. I have a velcro drape in both blue and black for the back of Peanut's tank- we can change out the background color pretty easily. I like that.

rolloffhill

11-29-2007, 10:18 PM

Easier. Because you don't have the correct shape to go along with the reflective properties, you really wouldn't gain that much with aluminum foil over white paint.

The paint also helps protect the wood from the humidity.

If you want to take it to the next level, you can get some raw sheet metel and make it curve, like this...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Andrew_H/fishy/homemadereflector.png

so- white paint it is.

roflmao, I saw that one coming a mile away....:chris:

I painted the back of my tank a dark navy blue and turned out nice IMO. I only needed a pint but had to buy a quart, so I have some left if anyone needs some.

I would take a picture but its the tank with the SMS in it and we are now at 48 hrs and it looks exactly the same cloudy so I can't take a pic of it.

AndrewH

11-30-2007, 12:05 AM

i never thought of having a drape...
thats a good idea.

I have black painted backgrounds now...I like the look.

I just went to Wally World and got some thick black fabric, doubled it over and tacked it up behind the tank so that it sit right against the back of the tank. Works great, plus is really easy to change if I want to do something different.

I think 9 yards was $3.50 or so.

bra8ndy8

11-30-2007, 09:21 AM

I use Vinyl for my tanks....I get it for free from my hubby!

xtc

12-02-2007, 09:42 AM

WOW!!

Thanks Andrew!!

I had to replace the older 2 T-12s (it was time) with T-8's because the glass lids bumped into the bulbs. But 4 T-8s gives off plenty of light. No chance of ever forgetting to close the lid. :hehe:

I can't wait to start fighting the algae bloom.

xtc

12-02-2007, 11:29 AM

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l282/Fishgallery/CIMG0088.jpg

biggin

12-02-2007, 01:23 PM

Looks good.

xtc

12-02-2007, 01:36 PM

Bright as can be- I sure would like a pair of SA Mollies now... :D

Perhaps a pair of those Malawi's as well...but not as urgent.

biggin

12-02-2007, 02:15 PM

You around today?

I need to do some running around later today.

kewlkatdady

12-02-2007, 02:16 PM

very nice

xtc

12-02-2007, 02:25 PM

yea- I'm here, gimmie a holler- I might pop up to the store for something, but Logan is out with Grandma and Megan is ornament exchanging- so it's me and the pups!!

poel_19

12-02-2007, 02:35 PM

thats a BIG improvement!!

AndrewH

12-03-2007, 09:35 AM

You are very welcome!!! I'm glad I could help.

I was thinking that if the T12s hit that you might be able to get T8s to clear. Good to hear they're working.

Dang, that tank's looking really good!!!

Yeah, definitely get to doing your aglae bloom research now :D j/kWOW!!

Thanks Andrew!!

I had to replace the older 2 T-12s (it was time) with T-8's because the glass lids bumped into the bulbs. But 4 T-8s gives off plenty of light. No chance of ever forgetting to close the lid. :hehe:

I can't wait to start fighting the algae bloom.

AndrewH

12-03-2007, 09:41 AM

Oh, and if you ever feel you need more light, let me know and we can get those upgraded to T5HOs. (lol, just thought of something.... T5 HO, HO = put out more :rofl: I kill myself sometimes).

Anyway, I don't have all the pieces and parts, so it'll cost a little more but for a 4 lamp setup you're looking at $70 for the ballast, $10+ for the sockets and some wiring. Not too bad IMHO compared to the $500 fixtures with two tubes at the LFS ;).

xtc

12-03-2007, 09:47 AM

I'm thinking of changing that so I can do 2 bulbs on, then 4, then back to 2 thru the day. Cycle so to speak.

Next project is Peanuts- see about some t-12 caps and sheaths...I need to get that tank done as well.

AndrewH

12-03-2007, 09:54 AM

biggin

12-03-2007, 09:56 AM

Should have asked I have a few.

Yup, changing out the wiring on the ballast (actually just using 1 cord per ballast) will get you there!

I meant to put a switch on there for you, but forgot to bring one with me. If you want me to change the wiring on the ballast for you I can install switches if you'd like.

Peanuts tank shouldn't be too hard. I haven't see the caps locally (but having been looking), but Lowes has the shatter-proof sleeves pretty reasonably priced. Are you gonna tackle this one, or do you want some help :D?

xtc

12-03-2007, 09:57 AM

I'm always down for help- I don't wanna look like Joel- grabbin live wires and stuff. :hehe:

On the 55- I think I need to use two cords and timers- so however that needs to be done...

Peanuts tank needs 4 48" tubes- so that project will be pretty cheap.

rolloffhill

12-03-2007, 11:47 AM

Yup, changing out the wiring on the ballast (actually just using 1 cord per ballast) will get you there!

I meant to put a switch on there for you, but forgot to bring one with me. If you want me to change the wiring on the ballast for you I can install switches if you'd like.

Peanuts tank shouldn't be too hard. I haven't see the caps locally (but having been looking), but Lowes has the shatter-proof sleeves pretty reasonably priced. Are you gonna tackle this one, or do you want some help :D?

What kind of caps?

There is a lighting place in Lewisville called A&T lamps near valley ridge. I got a complete Icecap 660 setup there and they have waterproof caps there if that is what you are talking about. If that isn't it, I'm sure they could get what you need. Good people, nice mom and pop shop....:)

A To T Lamps Inc
720 Valley Ridge # 5
Lewisville, TX 75057
(972) 219-9660
Hours of Operation:
Mon-Fri 8am-5pm

Payment Methods:
AMEX, CHECK, DISCOVER, MASTER CARD and VISA

Your Light Bulb Source

Lighting For Aquariums & Indoor Gardening!

AndrewH

12-03-2007, 11:52 AM

Should have asked I have a few.

Oh well, I didn't think about it until I was already done and we were about to leave.

I'm always down for help- I don't wanna look like Joel- grabbin live wires and stuff. :hehe:

On the 55- I think I need to use two cords and timers- so however that needs to be done...

Peanuts tank needs 4 48" tubes- so that project will be pretty cheap.

Help, no problem. How soon are you looking to do this? My schedule is pretty much booked through Jan at this point, :cs:.

Here's (http://www.ballastwise.com/item.asp?PID=31&FID=13&level=1) a ballast that'll handle 4 - T12s or 4 - T8s for $14.99. (this is the website I bought those ballast from that I put in your 55 canopy)

Then just get 8 more sockets like you have on your 55 canopy and then we should be good to get started.