DIY Wet/Dry

[xtc]

Anyone built one? Show me whatcha did, etc.

Skipp- that means move your link over here and
Blake- anytime you're ready to pass those links- that'd be cool. :p:

I'm looking at building a wet/dry for my 200g and need some r&d help.

[biggin]

Sorry couple things came up last night. I will get it tonight.

[rolloffhill]

http://www.dfwfishbox.com/forums/production/wetdry.php

[kewlkatdady]

Chris...is your tank drilled or are you going to use a hob over flow kit?

[xtc]

I have a top- so I can't use HOB. However, the glass has 3 holes across the back- below the top. So I was thinking about using a "U" tube straight into the tank from one of the three holes and having the return in one of the other ones.

Skipp, Blake and I talked about this at length the other night- but before I get underway, I wanna see a couple things and hear ideas/opinions.

[AndrewH]

Do you have a picture of that top you could post?

I'll make you up some drawings to show the equipment in and out :D

[kewlkatdady]

since you have the holes in the back of the tank...couldn't you just plumb some pvc through the holes...

maybe two inlets and one return of vise versa...

[xtc]

Andrew- sorry, I didn't take pictures- but they're 3" in diameter and space evenly across the 95" tank.

KKD- that's kinda what I'm planning on doing.

[kewlkatdady]

I'd think that would be pretty simple...bulkhead...pvc with some sort of pre filter...and the holes would work just like an over flow...


I think or am I missing something?

[xtc]

that's the basic idea- but there are other neat modifications (see Skipp's invention). Then there's a bunch of basic questions like how much water in the lower chamber, volume of bioballs and a half dozen others I came up with after doin my initial look see.

I was also looking at doing my return as under gravel jets- but I think I'm going to do that separate.

[kewlkatdady]

the UGJ returns are a cool idea, but i thnk a little impractical.

Chop chop Chris....I wanna see it.;)

[xtc]

I've got a small opening to the under tank area- so the Sump container itself is an issue.

The biggest thing I've found that will fit is a Rubbermade 37 gallon tub at Home Depot. I'd like to find a larger container- but, I'm also thinking of setting another tub beside it and connecting them towards the top as an emergency overflow- should the pump fail.

[xtc]

http://hmmm.co.za/archives/bored_of_waiting_dammit.jpg

[rolloffhill]

Your not gonna get anything done sleeping in the corner....

[xtc]

Explain this to me...

http://www.3reef.com/forums/attachments/i-made/4411d1108229259-nice-cheap-diy-overflow-overflowmydry.jpg

Also, I'm going to be looking for 1100-1200 gph, do I need to be concerned with this not being able to handle that much?

[xtc]

doin your own research sucks! :bs::flipa:

[AndrewH]

Flow Rate = .25 * (Pi) * (pipe dia)2 * Velocity

[xtc]

explain that Andrew- I've got a 200 gallon tank and plan on cycling 1200 gph- so tell me the math and tube diameter- will I need two inputs/outputs?

And tell me why I need 1/4 the tank size in a sump if the off the shelf versions, designed for a 200g tank are only 20g capacity???

[AndrewH]

The formula I posted was to calculate the flow rate of a particulare pipe diameter.

The flow rate of the pipe is equal to 1/4 times pi times the pipes diameter squared times the water's velocity (speed).

There's a lot of phyics involved, but for simplcity use 400 gph for 3/4" and 800 gph for 1".


200 gallon tank at 1200 gph means you'll turn the tank over 6 times per hour. You need a pump that'll handle 1200 gph at whatever head (vertical height from the pump's location to the top of the tank). A good head estimate is 6 feet. 4 feet being true vertical and the extra 2 feet for the changes in direction.

On something like this I would recommend getting two pumps at 600 gph because it'd be cheaper to replace one if it goes out and if one goes out, you still have some filteration. (BTW... the Mag Drive 9.5 will flow ~ 700 gph at 6' head).

I'd use two completely separate pumps at 600 gph to return the water to the tank. And one drainage system that'll handle at least 1200 gph, so 2 - 1" drain pipes.

The amount of water in the sump isn't all that important. You just want to make sure you have enough to completely cover you pump(s) to keep them cool. Extra is gravy as in extra water in the system. Extra water = extra stubility.

Personally, if I were doing your tank, I'd get a plastic tote from HD/Lowes for $10 at 37 gallons (I think I saw where that's the biggest you could fit) and use that as my sump.

[AndrewH]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Andrew_H/fishy/XTCsump.jpg

[AndrewH]

OR
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Andrew_H/fishy/XTCsump-1.jpg

[AndrewH]

Explanation

http://www.sirensongboutique.com/animals/images/overflow.gif


Explain this to me...

http://www.3reef.com/forums/attachments/i-made/4411d1108229259-nice-cheap-diy-overflow-overflowmydry.jpg

Also, I'm going to be looking for 1100-1200 gph, do I need to be concerned with this not being able to handle that much?

[AndrewH]

Another version
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/fidojoe/overflow1.jpg

Here's the entire thread with lots of different versions and some pics.

http://www.3reef.com/forums/i-made/nice-cheap-diy-overflow-29396-10.html

[AndrewH]

Here's another take on the design

http://www.3reef.com/forums/attachments/i-made/5936d1160115249-nice-cheap-diy-overflow-overflow.jpg

[xtc]

Megan and Logan are at the airport waiting for their flight out of town- so this project will get moved to the front burner real quickly!!

[kewlkatdady]

Chris...let me know how it goes...I'm going to try this also for the FW 'fuge that I've been talking about...

[xtc]

Are the holes in the drip pan supposed to be smaller (slow the flow) or wider (faster water turn)?

[AndrewH]

"Drip" pan means a slow water flow, but you don't want to create a back up of the water, so 1/8"-3/16" holes on a 1" x 1" grid usually works well.

[biggin]

I think it depends on the setup and is a little trial and error.

I would start small and go larger if you are not getting the flow you want.

If you go too big you will not have enough time with bacteria.


Are the holes in the drip pan supposed to be smaller (slow the flow) or wider (faster water turn)?

[rolloffhill]

:exactly: You may have to play with it a bit.

The best way to drill them is to use a small regular bit and pick yourself up a unibit.

[xtc]

I got a good start on the container, pans and "biohouse". Plumbing is on my radar next.

cost so far:
37g rubbermaid tub $10.99
eggcrate sheet $10.99 (Should have used a $1.99 deep plastic tub with holes drilled instead)
Drip pan- free from the kitchen

[AndrewH]

Yeah, that eggcrate is a little over priced for what you're using it for (at least for putting in a sump).

[xtc]

I just ordered 1000 bioballs for $36.00 :spend:

[rolloffhill]

Hmmm...trying to picture your biohouse...

[rolloffhill]

I just ordered 1000 bioballs for $36.00 :spend:


What is the surface area of those bio-balls?

[xtc]

86 sq ft.- but I won't use them all on this project- I see another project real quickly after this first one.

The bio house is 13x12x10- so I might use 1/4 the balls I get.

1000 balls is a sheot load!! I expect a box the size of 50g tank to show up. Coralife send 250 balls in a 5 gallon bucket. so think 4 of those. :hehe:

[rolloffhill]

Wrong, coralife's 5 gallon bucket is ~1250 balls

The 250 balls is = gallon.

I thought the same thing but I got the coralife balls without the bucket in just a box, and I was quite disappointed when I saw how many I actually got.

1 gallon of coralife balls =21.xsf which supports 45-60 gallons.

So for peanut you'll need 5 gallons of balls minimum.

[AndrewH]

Here's (http://www.onlineaquatic.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6) 5 gallons of 1-1/2" for $30.

[xtc]

now I need to find plumbing supplies. I'm not crazy about PVC- it's got too thick a diameter and it's unnecessary- I want thin plastic in 1.5" for the "U" tube and 1" for the drip pan spray bar(s). That part should be easier than finding the goofey shaped attachments.

I hope Elliott's can hook a brutha up!

[greeneyed]

You can get pressure pipe, not sch 40. It is thin wall.

[AndrewH]

Bioballs at GlassCages.com (http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=39)

[AndrewH]

CPVC is thin walled.

[xtc]

cpvc? Where can I get it?

[greeneyed]

Hardware store, it is hot water pipe. Before I used it though I would check ou their pressure pipe. It is thin walled and alot cheaper than cpvc.

[AndrewH]

CPVC is at any local hardware store that carries PVC. It's normally a fraction of the price of PVC, but it's thin walled, so won't hold the same pressure as PVC (which you're not pressurizing it anyway so would be perfect for this application).

Normally look off white (yellowish) as compared to bright white PVC.

[xtc]

Home Depot and Lowe's BLEW as far as plumbing supplies. I saw some small black (hot water?) tubing- but it was too small 1/2" ID and they lacked in the attachment/modification department (caps, "T"s and 1.5" to 1" converters). I'd like to find thin/clear tubing like we have on our out-of-the-box filtration systems- But where can you find that stuff except at DNA for an arm and a leg?...

[kewlkatdady]

yeah that is what I used for my UGJ...

be careful as the ID's and OD's are a little different than the regular PVC and you must use ALL CPVC 90's and t's.

If I remember right i did my UGJ's for $9 using CPVC.

[AndrewH]

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productCompare&lpage=none&referurl=productList%26No%3D0%26Ntt%3DCPVC%26Ntk%3 Di_products

[greeneyed]

http://www.clearpvcpipe.com/?gclid=COSflt-86Y8CFQQjPAodegkMDQ

[AndrewH]

After a quick search for PVC at lowes, PVC seems cheaper.

[greeneyed]

Yeah pressure pvc will be cheaper. The fittings will be alot cheaper.

[AndrewH]

http://www.clearpvcpipe.com/?gclid=COSflt-86Y8CFQQjPAodegkMDQ


Sweet :D

But dang look at those prices!!!

[kewlkatdady]

why on earth would you that much for clear?!?!?!?

1" T's for 11.02 A PIECE!!!!

wow...
I'll stick with HD and a can of spray paint.

[biggin]

Plano Pets from time to time have it but I did not see any when I was there today.

I have seen where people use Acrylic but it is expensive.

Home Depot and Lowe's BLEW as far as plumbing supplies. I saw some small black (hot water?) tubing- but it was too small 1/2" ID and they lacked in the attachment/modification department (caps, "T"s and 1.5" to 1" converters). I'd like to find thin/clear tubing like we have on our out-of-the-box filtration systems- But where can you find that stuff except at DNA for an arm and a leg?...

[xtc]

So here are the bits so far.

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l282/Fishgallery/CIMG0070.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l282/Fishgallery/CIMG0073.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l282/Fishgallery/CIMG0074.jpg

[rolloffhill]

OHHHH I may....dibsssssss

[AndrewH]

There you go!!

What's your total cost so far?

[ElijahTurtle]

you'll need 5 gallons of balls minimum.
That's alot of balls:hehe:

[bra8ndy8]

You need to dust around your cable box!! LOL sorry.....hey that's cool! Keep us updated!

[biggin]

Sounds like someone is volunteering....

You need to dust around your cable box!! LOL sorry.....hey that's cool! Keep us updated!

[rolloffhill]

You need to dust around your cable box!! LOL sorry.....hey that's cool! Keep us updated!


:wha: of all those pictures you see a cable box???:confuzeld:

[Kathy]

http://www.dfwfishbox.com/showthread.php?p=17142#post17142

[rolloffhill]

OHHHH I do!!!

You need to live closer to me...

[ElijahTurtle]

Here's what I've got going on mine. Still have to build the internal overflow box, add some ball vaves & disconnects, glue it all together, etc.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q83/elijahtturtle/100_1235.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q83/elijahtturtle/100_1236.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q83/elijahtturtle/100_1234.jpg

[rolloffhill]

Chris I think this may solve your problems!!

Thanks for posting that Amon..:clap:

[ElijahTurtle]

Yeah I've been playing catchup in my tank plumbing knowledge since I decided to add salt to my repertoire of tank experience

[bra8ndy8]

:wha: of all those pictures you see a cable box???:confuzeld:


LOL Umm yeah...and something he needs to put the Christmas lights in (Tub)
The eggcrate....and some ..............Dust! LOL :p:

[xtc]

I let Megan do the stuff that won't kill fish- talk to her about the dust.

Update: I went and bought the "trombone" parts. They were like $6.00 and the nice Depot dude was willing to cut them for me, so I basically need to glue it and drill a couple holes and that parts done. I also picked up an inline flow control valve at $5.00

The only issue- the wall is 2" from the back of the tank- the tube is 2.25"- so I gotta figure out how to move the tank .5" :eek:

I also bought the 10' return hose (Like Skipp has) and a can of Krylon plastic spray paint (is there anything I need to look for to make sure it's aquarium safe?). so that trip was nearly $40- my budget is slipping, but it's still a fun project.

I thought about doing the same thing as you Amon- but I'm worried about getting it set up and listening to the noise- so I'm doin the trombone method. Not to mention- that part was $6.00.


Tonight's T-giving with the folks (Luby's- before they leave town)- so I'm not sure how much I can work on it tonight. :(

[AndrewH]

I just had a hole put into the 33 like Amon did for a drain back to the sump.

Amon - is the 90* elbow inside the tank to control the noise?

[ElijahTurtle]

Yes, it's a modification of a durso standpipe

[ElijahTurtle]

I also bought the 10' return hose (Like Skipp has) and a can of Krylon plastic spray paint (is there anything I need to look for to make sure it's aquarium safe?).
The guys over at DFWMAS are using it in the tank with no ill affects. Just make sure it is the Fusion stuff made for plastic.

[AndrewH]

Yes, it's a modification of a durso standpipe

Sweet, I'll have to do that.

Are you gonna put some sponge into the opening to keep the fishies out?

[rolloffhill]

They end up in the sump otherwise...either way they are a pain to get out of an overflow or the sump....

Ask me how I know.....:twitch:

[ElijahTurtle]

No I'll try to explain it though.

All the overflow boxes I've seen have been square, which is a fairly good design. It's easy & sturdy, but it's noisy with the water falling several inches to the bottom. So my box isn't going to be square.
My idea is that with the angle, it will be less apt to acquire the jumpers. If they will follow the line of the box it will discourage them from breaching the edge, much like the concept of a fish trap...only in reverse. Perhaps it will also keep shy fish from hiding under the bottom of the box, since there isn't a flat bottom. Perhaps it will also discourage the occasional nosey snail from traversing it on all but one side. It will have a black cover over it with reliefs cut in for the water to flow in. With the black lid & the angle of the box it shouldn't let very much direct light hit the inside, this should discourage algae growth that plagues other square boxes.

I've never seen anything like this before, so I have no idea how well it will work. It will be set at the bottom edge of the trim.

Here's a rough sketch using mspaint:

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q83/elijahtturtle/overflow2.jpg

[rolloffhill]

Are you leaving the PVC stub in the 90* on the inside of the tank?

[ElijahTurtle]

Partially, it will be cut at an angle to match the angle of the glass. I want a small gap between the glass & the drain. That way if a snail does manage to get in there, it won't be able to slink it's way down the pipe. I just used that picture since it was easier than drawing one in mspaint.

[ElijahTurtle]

I might even turn the 90 upside down & cut the end off of it so I have a flat drain...this idea would be more of a a snail risk, either way my idea is to limit the amount of back siphon the tank can have incase of a pump/power failure.

Here's a shot of it & one of my "Zero Siphon" return as I'm planning it now.
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q83/elijahtturtle/100_1245.jpg

The idea is to raise the return above the water line before alowing it to turn down. I will then drill several small siphon breaks slightly below the water line. In the event of power failure, the tank will only be able to back siphon about 1" of water or less.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q83/elijahtturtle/100_1247.jpg

[AndrewH]

Dang, that's a really good idea (the angled overflow box).

Seems like a nice way to gain some of the room back inside the tank which is normally lost to the overflow box.

(I'm assuming this is your salt tank?) I know for my freshwater tank, the snails get into EVERYTHING. They're on the underside of the lid, in the HOB (and don't tell my wife) crawling across the countertop where they've snuck out of the heater hole in the hood. I don't think there's anyway to keep 'em outta the overflow box without closing it off some how (like filling it with sponge or something).

[xtc]

You were right- 1000 balls are in a small box...I'm gunna need more to fill the container...bum deal. 12"x12"x7" :confused:

Wrong, coralife's 5 gallon bucket is ~1250 balls

The 250 balls is = gallon.

I thought the same thing but I got the coralife balls without the bucket in just a box, and I was quite disappointed when I saw how many I actually got.

1 gallon of coralife balls =21.xsf which supports 45-60 gallons.

So for peanut you'll need 5 gallons of balls minimum.

[dcacjc]

Hey Chris did you get your tank for the sump yet?

[xtc]

yea- it looks great! I need to figure out the guts before I (we) put it in the base. But I'm very pleased with the way it looks.

There's a not pad in front of me right now trying to figure out the Bio Ball compartment and drip pan- as soon as they're in, WE install.

[greeneyed]

:npics:

[xtc]

:hehe: [DOH!!]

I'll snap some pics when I get home.

[greeneyed]

Cool Thanks, kinda want to see this guys craftsmanship.

[xtc]

seals look good, he does a thin bead between the glass and a good straight even strip along the seam.

He works for a glass company and he knows how thick a glass to use based on water volume. He's got a healthy fear of large tanks- he's not crazy about building anything over 75 gallons- but he did a 75 for Steve.

his background is reptile tanks- He's built about 8 fishtanks thus far.

No framing- just glass. He put a 1" glass splash guard/edge on my sump and it looks nice. Glass edges are smooth.

I will most likely have him build me another long (41" long by 12-14" tall)- but I would steer clear of doing anything too long or tall.

[AndrewH]

I can help you out tomorrow when I'm there if you want :D

[rolloffhill]

You were right- 1000 balls are in a small box...I'm gunna need more to fill the container...bum deal. 12"x12"x7" :confused:


Ahhhhhh.....:happydrunks:

[xtc]

I will probably move the little divider on the far left- it seems to be a bit far from the bio ball bulkhead- but that's no big deal. The second pic has the bio ball structure I made for the other tub- but I'll probably build a platform and just put the balls loose in the middle section- once I get a whole lot more.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l282/Fishgallery/CIMG0081.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l282/Fishgallery/CIMG0083.jpg

[dcacjc]

looks good Chris, I think that I might have to make a call to him.

[bra8ndy8]

HI MAX!!!! You're hinney......well.....it's in the pic!!

[xtc]

Alright- here's the pics I've created so far. The top is a looking down- the 2 circles are where the water drops in- it passes thru catch socks (lower pic) and grabs the big particles. IF those socks should fill up- the plate is slanted so the water will run out over the bio balls anyway. There is a splash plate on top and on the front edge to make sure the water doesn't escape. Gray color is existing sump glass. dotted lines are under or behind a piece of plastic for design purposes. The holey things are drip plates so the water will dispurse over the bio balls- the holes are not to scale, just there to give you a basic idea of what that part is. There's a center brace on it b/c I was thinking of using skinny plastic- but I doubt that's possible.

Thoughts?
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l282/Fishgallery/sump.gif

[xtc]

Thanks for all you guys input. :flipa: I cut the plastic last night. Drilled the drip pan holes- I need to find Lexan glue and put it all together.

[AndrewH]

:blahblah:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Andrew_H/Smileys/WeRequirePictures.gif

[flamenco-t]

I am not sure if you still need some pics...but this is my DIY wet/dry filter that I made using a 55 gallon standard tank for my 240

A couple of tricks I'd like to share...

When you drill your drip plate, start with smaller holes from the water source and work it to larger holes according to the flow..

For example, my drip plate is 24" long and my water flow is going from right to left. I used 1/16" drill bit on the right side and work it to 3/16" to the very far left. This way, water dispersed evenly...you will get water dripping from all holes thoughout the drip plate. Make your drip plate stand perfectly level so water won't drips on one side versus all sides.

First chamber I used 2 filter socks and housing for my 2 convicts whose breeding to provide delicious fry meals for the big guys. I also have a bio filter air tube in this chamber and 2 heaters.

Second chamber, drip plate and bio balls..

Third chamber, I have all 4 air stones and another bio filter air tube along with my PH monitor probe, Heater sensor probe and temp probe.

Fourth Chamber, return section..

stan

[xtc]

excellent!

where'd you get the filter socks?
How much flow are you pulling down?
What is the ID of your down hose?What size pump are you running? How far?

I already drilled my drip plate- I hope I got that part right.

I'm gluing the plastic together tonight- I hope it works out.

[flamenco-t]

I ordered filter socks from marine depot. I used 2 at a time and change out one every 3-4 weeks.

I am pulling about 800 gph through the sump using 1 1/4" Durso PVC and 1" down the filter sock.

I am using a mag 12, although, I am planning on selling the Mag 12 and get a Mag 18 instead. My overflow can handle 600 gph each at the very least and I have 2.

On the drip plate....if you made a mistake, you can get some pieces of foam and place it accordingly on the drip plate to direct flow.

stan