what now?

[bgbdwlf2500]

im selling my big flowerhorn in the bar tank, you can see pics in the tankbuster section.

what should i get now? i dont want something wimpy, its a bar tank. :)

whats everyone think?????

im thinking some kind of smaller cichlids but not sure

also if you suggest something give me the easy name to find it with:)

[kewlkatdady]

go with a african tang tank.

There can be some really neat fish out of that lake...

no shellies (although i love me some shellies)

but maybe a lamp. and neo lamp tank.

[AndrewH]

What size tank is that again? Do you have places to hide equipment (meaning extra equipment)?

[bgbdwlf2500]

What size tank is that again? Do you have places to hide equipment (meaning extra equipment)?


its a 55. oh crap hide more equipment, this should be good...:)

yes i do have room for more equipment

[fishyjoe24]

yellow labs, or acei

[AndrewH]

its a 55. oh crap hide more equipment, this should be good...:)

yes i do have room for more equipment

I was just wondering :D, nothing in particular in mind!

What other tanks do you already have in the house? I see your discus, do you also have cichlids? Community? Planted?

[bgbdwlf2500]

I was just wondering :D, nothing in particular in mind!

What other tanks do you already have in the house? I see your discus, do you also have cichlids? Community? Planted?


Discus, Community, the one with the flower horn, and 3 salt tanks

[AndrewH]

I would say go HEAVILY planted tetra tank. Those can be some extremely impressive displays, plus there's little up keep on one (no gravel vac, no water changes, etc.). But there is a little more equipment involved.

[fishyjoe24]

I would say go HEAVILY planted tetra tank. Those can be some extremely impressive displays, plus there's little up keep on one (no gravel vac, no water changes, etc.). But there is a little more equipment involved.

did i just read no water changes how is the possiable?:eek:

[biggin]

With a good planted tank after a while the plants do most of the filtering for you and water changes are not as important. You will still have to do some 6mos - year.

It is a nice way to go.

[bgbdwlf2500]

I would say go HEAVILY planted tetra tank. Those can be some extremely impressive displays, plus there's little up keep on one (no gravel vac, no water changes, etc.). But there is a little more equipment involved.


equipment being? CO2? what else?

[biggin]

I would go CO2 and UV.

[bgbdwlf2500]

I would go CO2 and UV.


thats not too bad

[biggin]

Not too bad, about $300 if you do it "right". Depending on your shopping abilities you can do it cheaper.

thats not too bad

[bgbdwlf2500]

Not too bad, about $300 if you do it "right". Depending on your shopping abilities you can do it cheaper.


UV is pretty self explanatory...never done a planted tank. is the main thing CO2 or do i need more test kits for other stuff besides the ammonia nitrite nitrate etc?

not looking for a lot of work, as i said its one of 6 tanks.

[biggin]

Nah it is the same test. Work wise it is more up front but after it is up and running it is so much easier.

CO2 is expensive to get the setup if you do it right and control it while the lights are on it is not that expensive long term.

[bgbdwlf2500]

Nah it is the same test. Work wise it is more up front but after it is up and running it is so much easier.

CO2 is expensive to get the setup if you do it right and control it while the lights are on it is not that expensive long term.

i was looking at CO2 systems. whats the deal with CO2 and the lights on or off? why does it matter or what happens?

[biggin]

Where is everyone else?

Someone correct me if I am wrong....

The plants use it in the photosynthesis process, and this does not go on without light. So any CO2 that is put into the tanks while the lights are out is wasted, as it is not free it is best not to waste it.

[ElijahTurtle]

It depends on your CO2 output. If your running it high, that can do 2 major things 1)it could saturate in the tank with CO2 while the lights are out since the plants not only don't use it while the lights are off, they produce it. 2) the saturation can cause big pH swings. Both can stress you fish, eventually leading to poor health/death etc.
easiest fix is to run the CO2 solenoied & the lights off of a single timer. End of over saturation & yes total waste of perrfectly useful CO2

[bgbdwlf2500]

It depends on your CO2 output. If your running it high, that can do 2 major things 1)it could saturate in the tank with CO2 while the lights are out since the plants not only don't use it while the lights are off, they produce it. 2) the saturation can cause big pH swings. Both can stress you fish, eventually leading to poor health/death etc.
easiest fix is to run the CO2 solenoied & the lights off of a single timer. End of over saturation & yes total waste of perrfectly useful CO2


makes sense. any idea why it changes PH?

[AndrewH]

Yeah, CO2 (UV not necessary IMO for a 55 - I don't even think there's on small enough for a 55 but could be wrong) and good lighting. The CO2 and lighting for a 55 isn't too bad. And depending on what plants you go with might not be 100% necessary either. Low Light requiring plants won't need lots of light (obviously ;)) and CO2 isn't 100% required it just makes the plants grow faster/stronger/etc.

Here's the basic theory(ies): The plants use the fish waste as food, and produce O2. The fish hide among the plants and keep the plants clean of algae = Win, win.

The plants produce O2 during lights on by using CO2 but you have to be careful about running CO2 24/7 because the plants use O2 and produce CO2 during lights out. Most people have the CO2 on a timer along with the lighting (as already mentioned) so when the lights are on, the CO2 is on and when the lights are off, the CO2 is off. But CO2 dissolved into the water also makes the pH lower, so some people use a pH controller to control the CO2. If the pH drops below a set point, the CO2 is turned off. If it rises back up it's turned back on.

Also, you want to make sure you have a sealed filtration system on the tank if you're running CO2. An HOB or wet/dry will cause the CO2 to aerate out of the water, so most people use a canister filter. (the idea being you keep a filter(s) in place that'll handle the entire bioload of the tank incase something happens to the plants - disease, etc.).

[AndrewH]

makes sense. any idea why it changes PH?

There is a direct relation between the pH, CO2, KH, and GH of the water (might be slightly different, but something alone these lines). There's a formula out there that'll tell you what one value is if you give it the others. Let me see if I can find it again (might be a couple days before I get a chance to look for it).

EDIT

Ok, check out this (http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10044) thread (the entire site is great ;)), and follow the links in the 9th post.

[AndrewH]

http://www.hydor.it/inglese/co2_advanced.htm

Here's a regulator that'll fit onto the smaller 12oz. - 20oz. paitball CO2 bottles. Might be nice for a tank with limited space or for smaller tanks.

[poel_19]

andrew you got the point pretty much but plants release O2 at night...they are expelling the "toxic" gases from their systems to create more room for CO2 when the light is turned back on and photosynthesis begins anew.

[AndrewH]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_respiration

Here you go ;)

[AndrewH]

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/mg/botany/respire.html

Table 2. Photosynthesis and Respiration.

Photosynthesis

produces food
stores energy
uses water
uses carbon dioxide
releases oxygen
occurs in sunlightRespiration

uses food
releases energy
produces water
produces carbon dioxide
uses oxygen
occurs in the dark as well as light

[poel_19]

im stupid...........................

[AndrewH]

NO sir, you're not!!!!

(edit your post so that there's a "C" in front of the first "O2" and delete the "C" in front of "CO2" and you'll be golden ;))

[bgbdwlf2500]

wow this turned into a complicated post :)

[fatfutures]

Uh YEAH!

THis is why I'm sticking with the easy, will growi in a freakin closet, kinda plants!

[biggin]

Depending on which way I go with my 180g, I will be putting a UV on my 55g if it stays planted.

There are a lot of UV units for aquariums under 50g.

Yeah, CO2 (UV not necessary IMO for a 55 - I don't even think there's on small enough for a 55 but could be wrong) and good lighting. The CO2 and lighting for a 55 isn't too bad. And depending on what plants you go with might not be 100% necessary either. Low Light requiring plants won't need lots of light (obviously ;)) and CO2 isn't 100% required it just makes the plants grow faster/stronger/etc.

Here's the basic theory(ies): The plants use the fish waste as food, and produce O2. The fish hide among the plants and keep the plants clean of algae = Win, win.

The plants produce O2 during lights on by using CO2 but you have to be careful about running CO2 24/7 because the plants use O2 and produce CO2 during lights out. Most people have the CO2 on a timer along with the lighting (as already mentioned) so when the lights are on, the CO2 is on and when the lights are off, the CO2 is off. But CO2 dissolved into the water also makes the pH lower, so some people use a pH controller to control the CO2. If the pH drops below a set point, the CO2 is turned off. If it rises back up it's turned back on.

Also, you want to make sure you have a sealed filtration system on the tank if you're running CO2. An HOB or wet/dry will cause the CO2 to aerate out of the water, so most people use a canister filter. (the idea being you keep a filter(s) in place that'll handle the entire bioload of the tank incase something happens to the plants - disease, etc.).

[AndrewH]

I sit corrected.

Good read about UV and aquariums (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=1315)

Thanks for the info biggin

40 - 70 gallon UV (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4393+16748&pcatid=16748)

[biggin]

I was reading about it and how it could help me with my hair algae. That is the only reason I know about it.

Ebay is littered with smaller UV units for pretty cheap.

I sit corrected.

Good read about UV and aquariums (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=1315)

Thanks for the info biggin

40 - 70 gallon UV (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4393+16748&pcatid=16748)

[bgbdwlf2500]

I was reading about it and how it could help me with my hair algae. That is the only reason I know about it.

Ebay is littered with smaller UV units for pretty cheap.

i only have a brown algae problem and a UV wont help that because its not in the water column. I bought a UV for my salt tank for disease but so far it hasnt helped and i went extreme overkill. A 36 watt on a 55 at only 400gph which is the minimum flow for it (recommended).

[bgbdwlf2500]

alright the flowerhorn is gone. interested in this planted tank... main thing is, can i get away without CO2??? if so how?

[AndrewH]

Yes, just look for plants that only require low lighting. CO2 can always be added later if you want, as all plants can benefit from it.

Low Light (http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=1&filter_by=2)
Medium Low Light (http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_list.php?category=1&filter_by=3)

But first I'd recommend working on an aquascape design or particular biotope you'd like to simulate (doesn't have to be exact). The idea being that you have a game plan or design you'd like to follow, then you're just looking for tall, medium, or short plants to fit into the design. Then you look for tall plants with broad leaves, or that are bushy, etc.

[FishGurl721]

If you don't want to go with the expensive co2, try dosing with Flourish Excel. It's a liquid carbon and I've had great results with it. I just put in a cap full every other day and my plants are doing great. Probably not AS great if it was with a expensive set up but still doin good, and mines a 46 so it should work for your 55.

p.s
besides having a good light, having a good substrate will really help too. Flourite is iron rich and can be used by itself instead of putting it under the gravel with Laterite. Its was I use and it really helps with the fertilization.

[AndrewH]

Good points! I completely for got about the ferts and good substrate.

[biggin]

1. Liquid Co2 will limit the plants you can use. I have a link somewhere that talks about this.

2. I would cap(put gravel or something over it) the substrate, I have tried uncapped and it is a pain every time I move a plant or something plus I have had better luck controlling the parameters with it capped.

Just my opinion.

If you don't want to go with the expensive co2, try dosing with Flourish Excel. It's a liquid carbon and I've had great results with it. I just put in a cap full every other day and my plants are doing great. Probably not AS great if it was with a expensive set up but still doin good, and mines a 46 so it should work for your 55.

p.s
besides having a good light, having a good substrate will really help too. Flourite is iron rich and can be used by itself instead of putting it under the gravel with Laterite. Its was I use and it really helps with the fertilization.

[bgbdwlf2500]

ive got a fairly good light (coralife dual bulb 48" T5). I tried some plants in my fiancees tank (same light) just to see how theyd do and they have hung in there but are dying (this is with no care for them at all, no ferts nothing). her tank also has a canister filter so i run an air pump 24/7. would that have any negative effects for a plant?

[AndrewH]

The coralife duel T5 is a nice fixture for a 55! You should be good to go on the lighting.

An air pump per say isnt' bad, but most plants don't like water to flow over their roots. If you have the air stone/bubble wond under the substrate that might be causing flow through the substrate (and it might even if it's not under the substrate). I'd recommend turning it off for a month to see if things improve and maybe adding some ferts. (again, I'm no plant expert so take this advice with a grain of sea salt :D)

Also, if you're not running CO2, any CO2 that is created by the fish is being areated out by the air bubbles.

What type of plants are they (I'm assuming her tank is a 55 gallon)?

[AndrewH]

You're looking at about 2500 lumens from each lamp (5000 total) or about 91 lumens/gallon. That also works out to be 56 watts total or 1.02 wpg. (assuming these are normal output and not the high output versions)

If you were using 4' T8 lamps you'd have 1600 lumens per lamp (3200 total) or about 58 lumens/gallon. That also works out to be 64 watts total or 1.16 wpg.
You're getting more light output while using less wattage (kinna makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside <---- ok, maybe that's just me :D).

[bgbdwlf2500]

i figured with the amount of light that it puts out for 50.00, it was a good deal


also im not really worried about the plants, it was basically a test to see how theyd do. i think its been almost 2 months and they are just now to the point where im about to take them out.. at 4.00 each its not that big of a deal:)